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Frequent Contributor

Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face


@jadster33 wrote:

@Intruder wrote:

@jadster33 wrote:

The greatest danger is FOMO. 

As earnings continue to nosedive and tech stock prices are bid up, some stare at their pile of cash (earning .01% MMKT interest) and start to waiver at the worst possible time.   


Who is missing out? I started buying more equities on March 25 and haven’t stopped. My assets are at the level they were before the covid crash. My bet is that FAANG+M, recovery stocks, stay at home stocks, pharma and QQQ will continue to increase as the economy recovers over the long term. I have little invested in fixed income because yields will be below rate of inflation for the foreseeable future.

What are you invested in? TIPs?


So very sorry Intruder, how could I forget that all postings should keep you in mind.  You are the center of the universe.   This applies to nobody else.     You know it all.    Keep posting about your proud March purchases.   Never gets old.


Jad:

you were the one who put into play the idea that the greatest danger is FOMO and I responded that I didnt miss out.  

what were you expecting? Only posts that agreed with you? Sorry to disappoint you. I will try harder not to do so in the future.

 

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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face


@Anitya wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

 

IMO, the greatest danger investors face, long term, is the country's sped-up move toward socialism, in the extreme sense, and the risk of wealth confiscation of various forms.  Such as nationalizing companies/industries; wealth taxes; IRA surtaxes; dollar caps on all forms of assets and their benefits; inability to go elsewhere with your wealth, etc.  You may simply be prohibited from owning anything exceeding a dollar limit.  Most recent example...elimination of "stretch IRA features."  Just one of many coming.  Remember, Social Security was once non-taxable income to recipients.

R48

 


Do you have a solution or are you asking for a solution to your perceived problem?  Not sure if you are trying to help or asking for help.


Not asking for help...just trying to answer the original poster on the greatest danger for investors.  Others can ponder.

I am continually working on a solution for my family.  This is Job #1, as far as I'm concerned. 

For instance, my strategy of rather than leaving my kids an IRA (which they now cannot "stretch"), I instead started IRAs in their names, starting at their age 12, is now paying off.  They can hold these for a lifetime.  I suspect IRAs will be the first asset to be under assault.  

And BTW, I see where NY City is now advancing a TAX ON BILLIONAIRES, an annual tax on increases in wealth, regardless if realized or not.  At a high percentage rate.

This is what happens...you start with billionaires, then millionaires...eventually you get to taxing Intruder on his wealth. ..or anyone who has any wealth.  And you can't easily flee.  In New Jersey, currently if you sell your house and move to Florida, you pay NJ a tax (I think 2%) on the sale/proceeds. 

Standby folks.

R48...glad to be domiciled in Florida!

 

 

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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face

All this talk about higher taxes makes me wonder if I should increase my allocation to municipal bonds. But... who’s to say that muni bonds themselves won’t come under attack?

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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face


@retiredat48 wrote:

@Anitya wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

 

IMO, the greatest danger investors face, long term, is the country's sped-up move toward socialism, in the extreme sense, and the risk of wealth confiscation of various forms.  Such as nationalizing companies/industries; wealth taxes; IRA surtaxes; dollar caps on all forms of assets and their benefits; inability to go elsewhere with your wealth, etc.  You may simply be prohibited from owning anything exceeding a dollar limit.  Most recent example...elimination of "stretch IRA features."  Just one of many coming.  Remember, Social Security was once non-taxable income to recipients.

R48

 


Do you have a solution or are you asking for a solution to your perceived problem?  Not sure if you are trying to help or asking for help.


Not asking for help...just trying to answer the original poster on the greatest danger for investors.  Others can ponder.

I am continually working on a solution for my family.  This is Job #1, as far as I'm concerned. 

For instance, my strategy of rather than leaving my kids an IRA (which they now cannot "stretch"), I instead started IRAs in their names, starting at their age 12, is now paying off.  They can hold these for a lifetime.  I suspect IRAs will be the first asset to be under assault.  

And BTW, I see where NY City is now advancing a TAX ON BILLIONAIRES, an annual tax on increases in wealth, regardless if realized or not.  At a high percentage rate.

This is what happens...you start with billionaires, then millionaires...eventually you get to taxing Intruder on his wealth. ..or anyone who has any wealth.  And you can't easily flee.  In New Jersey, currently if you sell your house and move to Florida, you pay NJ a tax (I think 2%) on the sale/proceeds. 

Standby folks.

R48...glad to be domiciled in Florida!

 

 


So let NY raise taxes on billionaires who will flee the state to avoid the high income tax and 16% estate tax. In 2018 NYS recorded a 3.7B decline in income tax because many residents chose to leave when they lost the SALT deduction. Trump elected to become a resident of FL Last year to avoid NY and NJ income and estate tax.

The NJ 2% exit tax on the sale of a home Is an urban legend. What can happen is that the mortgage Co withholds 2% of the sales price of the house to pay potential cap gains tax on the profit. However NJ exempts 500k in profits of a married couple From NJ income tax. There are 14 exemptions from having 2% of sales price withheld including the seller signing an affidavit that a NJ resident tax return will be filed and the seller will pay any applicable income tax arising from the sale of the house. see form NJ GIT REP 3.

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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face

The NJ 2% exit tax on the sale of a home Is an urban legend. What can happen is that the mortgage Co withholds 2% of the sales price of the house to pay potential cap gains tax on the profit. However NJ exempts 500k in profits of a married couple From NJ income tax. There are 14 exemptions from having 2% of sales price withheld including the seller signing an affidavit that a NJ resident tax return will be filed and the seller will pay any applicable income tax arising from the sale of the house. see form NJ GIT REP 3.”

I have never understood US tax authorities’ pathological, idiotic, mind-numbing, insane OBSESSION with complexity. My US tax return is always over 100 pages long and my company pays E&Y $1,000 each year to prepare and file it. My old Singapore tax return was 2 pages. (Singapore has no CG tax, incidentally.) My Thailand return is 4 pages.

The US Federal and State tax authorities are simply insane. Always have been.

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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face

A  revenue-neutral simplification of the federal and state tax laws would be a great idea but there are many powerful lobbies that don't and won't permit it.  Even if simplification is achieved, which would be a miracle, it will be short-lived and, within 10 or 15 years, we will end up having many complications again.  I am an optimistic person but not on this issue.

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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face

We must first deal with the virus, then the impact it has and will have on our economy before I will be fully invested again. Add to my first concerns is the unrest in this country that is worsening daily and later this year we have an election. Yeah, I'm concerned that things are far from over. JMHO of course..............but then it's my money I'm concerned about, not yours.

Stay safe.

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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face


@retiredat48 wrote:

@Anitya wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

 

IMO, the greatest danger investors face, long term, is the country's sped-up move toward socialism, in the extreme sense, and the risk of wealth confiscation of various forms.  Such as nationalizing companies/industries; wealth taxes; IRA surtaxes; dollar caps on all forms of assets and their benefits; inability to go elsewhere with your wealth, etc.  You may simply be prohibited from owning anything exceeding a dollar limit.  Most recent example...elimination of "stretch IRA features."  Just one of many coming.  Remember, Social Security was once non-taxable income to recipients.

R48

 


Do you have a solution or are you asking for a solution to your perceived problem?  Not sure if you are trying to help or asking for help.


Not asking for help...just trying to answer the original poster on the greatest danger for investors.  Others can ponder.

I am continually working on a solution for my family.  This is Job #1, as far as I'm concerned. 

For instance, my strategy of rather than leaving my kids an IRA (which they now cannot "stretch"), I instead started IRAs in their names, starting at their age 12, is now paying off.  They can hold these for a lifetime.  I suspect IRAs will be the first asset to be under assault.  

And BTW, I see where NY City is now advancing a TAX ON BILLIONAIRES, an annual tax on increases in wealth, regardless if realized or not.  At a high percentage rate.

This is what happens...you start with billionaires, then millionaires...eventually you get to taxing Intruder on his wealth. ..or anyone who has any wealth.  And you can't easily flee.  In New Jersey, currently if you sell your house and move to Florida, you pay NJ a tax (I think 2%) on the sale/proceeds. 

Standby folks.

R48...glad to be domiciled in Florida!


R48 is correct. Having my permanent residence in France, I've seen first hand what happens when punitive taxes are levied against the wealthy: they depart. Next step: impose huge taxes on all working people to finance social programs and an early retirement age.  

So, unemployment is high and foreign investment is low.

Ironically, France is a good place for US retirees, as a French-US tax treaty fully protects SS, pension, and IRA income. Plus property taxes in Paris are very low, about 0.1% of value.  

Finally, tuition at France's excellent engineering schools is about 1200€ per year. 

N.

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Explorer ○

Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face

"For instance, my strategy of rather than leaving my kids an IRA (which they now cannot "stretch"), I instead started IRAs in their names, starting at their age 12, is now paying off. "

We have been doing this for years with Roth IRA's.  With the elimination of the "stretch" we are increasing our annual Roth gift as one way to speed up transfer of wealth.  Also increasing 529's for our grandkids.

BTW, there is no min age for a child to start a Roth, all they need is earned income - youtube influencer, modeling, lawn mowing, baby sitting, etc.  If a parent own a business, the child could be put on the payroll.

Pete

 

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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face


@norbertc wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

@Anitya wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

 

IMO, the greatest danger investors face, long term, is the country's sped-up move toward socialism, in the extreme sense, and the risk of wealth confiscation of various forms.  Such as nationalizing companies/industries; wealth taxes; IRA surtaxes; dollar caps on all forms of assets and their benefits; inability to go elsewhere with your wealth, etc.  You may simply be prohibited from owning anything exceeding a dollar limit.  Most recent example...elimination of "stretch IRA features."  Just one of many coming.  Remember, Social Security was once non-taxable income to recipients.

R48

 


Do you have a solution or are you asking for a solution to your perceived problem?  Not sure if you are trying to help or asking for help.


Not asking for help...just trying to answer the original poster on the greatest danger for investors.  Others can ponder.

I am continually working on a solution for my family.  This is Job #1, as far as I'm concerned. 

For instance, my strategy of rather than leaving my kids an IRA (which they now cannot "stretch"), I instead started IRAs in their names, starting at their age 12, is now paying off.  They can hold these for a lifetime.  I suspect IRAs will be the first asset to be under assault.  

And BTW, I see where NY City is now advancing a TAX ON BILLIONAIRES, an annual tax on increases in wealth, regardless if realized or not.  At a high percentage rate.

This is what happens...you start with billionaires, then millionaires...eventually you get to taxing Intruder on his wealth. ..or anyone who has any wealth.  And you can't easily flee.  In New Jersey, currently if you sell your house and move to Florida, you pay NJ a tax (I think 2%) on the sale/proceeds. 

Standby folks.

R48...glad to be domiciled in Florida!


R48 is correct. Having my permanent residence in France, I've seen first hand what happens when punitive taxes are levied against the wealthy: they depart. Next step: impose huge taxes on all working people to finance social programs and an early retirement age.  

So, unemployment is high and foreign investment is low.

Ironically, France is a good place for US retirees, as a French-US tax treaty fully protects SS, pension, and IRA income. Plus property taxes in Paris are very low, about 0.1% of value.  

Finally, tuition at France's excellent engineering schools is about 1200€ per year. 

N.


France collects the highest amount of taxes of any country, 47% of GDP. Total US taxes collected are only 26% of GDP which is why US economy grows at 2X the GDP of France because US consumers spend more money to grow the economy. French taxes pay for all the benefits French residents receive.

 

 

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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face


@chang wrote:

The NJ 2% exit tax on the sale of a home Is an urban legend. What can happen is that the mortgage Co withholds 2% of the sales price of the house to pay potential cap gains tax on the profit. However NJ exempts 500k in profits of a married couple From NJ income tax. There are 14 exemptions from having 2% of sales price withheld including the seller signing an affidavit that a NJ resident tax return will be filed and the seller will pay any applicable income tax arising from the sale of the house. see form NJ GIT REP 3.”

I have never understood US tax authorities’ pathological, idiotic, mind-numbing, insane OBSESSION with complexity. My US tax return is always over 100 pages long and my company pays E&Y $1,000 each year to prepare and file it. My old Singapore tax return was 2 pages. (Singapore has no CG tax, incidentally.) My Thailand return is 4 pages.

The US Federal and State tax authorities are simply insane. Always have been.


Not insane, carefully planned by the rich to help the rich.

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Frequent Contributor

Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face


@norbertc wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

@Anitya wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

 

IMO, the greatest danger investors face, long term, is the country's sped-up move toward socialism, in the extreme sense, and the risk of wealth confiscation of various forms.  Such as nationalizing companies/industries; wealth taxes; IRA surtaxes; dollar caps on all forms of assets and their benefits; inability to go elsewhere with your wealth, etc.  You may simply be prohibited from owning anything exceeding a dollar limit.  Most recent example...elimination of "stretch IRA features."  Just one of many coming.  Remember, Social Security was once non-taxable income to recipients.

R48

 


Do you have a solution or are you asking for a solution to your perceived problem?  Not sure if you are trying to help or asking for help.


Not asking for help...just trying to answer the original poster on the greatest danger for investors.  Others can ponder.

I am continually working on a solution for my family.  This is Job #1, as far as I'm concerned. 

For instance, my strategy of rather than leaving my kids an IRA (which they now cannot "stretch"), I instead started IRAs in their names, starting at their age 12, is now paying off.  They can hold these for a lifetime.  I suspect IRAs will be the first asset to be under assault.  

And BTW, I see where NY City is now advancing a TAX ON BILLIONAIRES, an annual tax on increases in wealth, regardless if realized or not.  At a high percentage rate.

This is what happens...you start with billionaires, then millionaires...eventually you get to taxing Intruder on his wealth. ..or anyone who has any wealth.  And you can't easily flee.  In New Jersey, currently if you sell your house and move to Florida, you pay NJ a tax (I think 2%) on the sale/proceeds. 

Standby folks.

R48...glad to be domiciled in Florida!


R48 is correct. Having my permanent residence in France, I've seen first hand what happens when punitive taxes are levied against the wealthy: they depart. Next step: impose huge taxes on all working people to finance social programs and an early retirement age.  

So, unemployment is high and foreign investment is low.

Ironically, France is a good place for US retirees, as a French-US tax treaty fully protects SS, pension, and IRA income. Plus property taxes in Paris are very low, about 0.1% of value.  

Finally, tuition at France's excellent engineering schools is about 1200€ per year. 

N.


We aren't France, and what happens in France won't necessarily happen here.  Departing from France is a couple of hours drive, departing from the US is far different.  If the billionaire leaves, so what?  His business probably won't, because there are reasons businesses are located where they are.  This is just spin.  Billionaires spend much of their time giving money away, I don't see them leaving for a 2% wealth tax.  Large Corporations also only have a limited ability to leave if taxed again.

What is pretty clear is that US Federal income is down, and spending is up, up, up.  Meanwhile, demographics are changing rapidly.  The protests we see today, and the over-reaction and push-back represent the last gasp for income inequality and the beginning of income equality.  " You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

bilperk, owned himself since 1946

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Frequent Contributor

Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face


@bilperk wrote:

@norbertc wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

@Anitya wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

 

IMO, the greatest danger investors face, long term, is the country's sped-up move toward socialism, in the extreme sense, and the risk of wealth confiscation of various forms.  Such as nationalizing companies/industries; wealth taxes; IRA surtaxes; dollar caps on all forms of assets and their benefits; inability to go elsewhere with your wealth, etc.  You may simply be prohibited from owning anything exceeding a dollar limit.  Most recent example...elimination of "stretch IRA features."  Just one of many coming.  Remember, Social Security was once non-taxable income to recipients.

R48

 


Do you have a solution or are you asking for a solution to your perceived problem?  Not sure if you are trying to help or asking for help.


Not asking for help...just trying to answer the original poster on the greatest danger for investors.  Others can ponder.

I am continually working on a solution for my family.  This is Job #1, as far as I'm concerned. 

For instance, my strategy of rather than leaving my kids an IRA (which they now cannot "stretch"), I instead started IRAs in their names, starting at their age 12, is now paying off.  They can hold these for a lifetime.  I suspect IRAs will be the first asset to be under assault.  

And BTW, I see where NY City is now advancing a TAX ON BILLIONAIRES, an annual tax on increases in wealth, regardless if realized or not.  At a high percentage rate.

This is what happens...you start with billionaires, then millionaires...eventually you get to taxing Intruder on his wealth. ..or anyone who has any wealth.  And you can't easily flee.  In New Jersey, currently if you sell your house and move to Florida, you pay NJ a tax (I think 2%) on the sale/proceeds. 

Standby folks.

R48...glad to be domiciled in Florida!


R48 is correct. Having my permanent residence in France, I've seen first hand what happens when punitive taxes are levied against the wealthy: they depart. Next step: impose huge taxes on all working people to finance social programs and an early retirement age.  

So, unemployment is high and foreign investment is low.

Ironically, France is a good place for US retirees, as a French-US tax treaty fully protects SS, pension, and IRA income. Plus property taxes in Paris are very low, about 0.1% of value.  

Finally, tuition at France's excellent engineering schools is about 1200€ per year. 

N.


We aren't France, and what happens in France won't necessarily happen here.  Departing from France is a couple of hours drive, departing from the US is far different.  If the billionaire leaves, so what?  His business probably won't, because there are reasons businesses are located where they are.  This is just spin.  Billionaires spend much of their time giving money away, I don't see them leaving for a 2% wealth tax.  Large Corporations also only have a limited ability to leave if taxed again.

What is pretty clear is that US Federal income is down, and spending is up, up, up.  Meanwhile, demographics are changing rapidly.  The protests we see today, and the over-reaction and push-back represent the last gasp for income inequality and the beginning of income equality.  " You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

bilperk, owned himself since 1946


Just what kind of income equality do you see? And will the middle class pay for it?

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Frequent Contributor

Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face

I'd like to live long enough, Bill, to witness at least the beginning of what you call "the last gasp" of the current Gilded Age.

Historically, this country saw one Gilded Age go down.  Why not another?

Bob

P.S. to Ryan. Gilded Age describes a historical period. Those who use "confiscate" are using a loaded political term.

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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face

Exactly what year is it down? Maybe folks won't leave the US but will move to no income tax states. 

U.S. Tax Revenue by Year

Here's a record of income for each fiscal year since 1789. Tax receipts fell off during the recession but started setting new records by FY 2013.6

 
Fiscal Year Revenue
FY 2021$3.86 (estimated)
FY 2020$3.71 trillion (estimated)
FY 2019$3.46 trillion (actual)
FY 2018$3.33 trillion
FY 2017$3.32 trillion
FY 2016$3.27 trillion
FY 2015$3.25 trillion
FY 2014$3.02 trillion
FY 2013$2.77 trillion
FY 2012$2.45 trillion
FY 2011$2.30 trillion
FY 2010$2.16 trillion
FY 2009$2.10 trillion
FY 2008$2.52 trillion
FY 2007$2.57 trillion
FY 2006$2.41 trillion
FY 2005$2.15 trillion
FY 2004$1.88 trillion
FY 2003$1.78 trillion
FY 2002$1.85 trillion
FY 2001$1.99 trillion
FY 2000$2.03 trillion
FY 1999$1.82 trillion
FY 1998$1.72 trillion
FY 1997$1.58 trillion
FY 1996$1.45 trillion
FY 1995$1.35 trillion
FY 1994$1.26 trillion
FY 1993$1.15 trillion
FY 1992$1.09 trillion
FY 1991$1.05 trillion
FY 1990$1.03 trillion
FY 1989$991 billion
FY1988$909 billion
FY 1987$854 billion
FY 1986$769 billion
FY 1985$734 billion
FY 1984$666 billion
FY 1983$601 billion
FY 1982$618 billion
FY 1981$599 billion
FY 1980$517 billion
FY 1979$463 billion
FY 1978$399 billion
FY 1977$356 billion
FY 1976$298 billion
FY 1975$279 billion
FY 1974$263 billion
FY 1973$231 billion
FY 1972$207 billion
FY 1971$187 billion
FY 1970$193 billion
FY 1969$187 billion
FY 1968$153 billion
FY 1967$149 billion
FY 1966$131 billion
FY 1965$117 billion
FY 1964$113 billion
FY 1963$107 billion
FY 1962$100 billion
FY 1961$94 billion
FY 1960$93 billion
FY 1789–1959$1.1 trillion

@bilperk wrote:

@norbertc wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

@Anitya wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

 

IMO, the greatest danger investors face, long term, is the country's sped-up move toward socialism, in the extreme sense, and the risk of wealth confiscation of various forms.  Such as nationalizing companies/industries; wealth taxes; IRA surtaxes; dollar caps on all forms of assets and their benefits; inability to go elsewhere with your wealth, etc.  You may simply be prohibited from owning anything exceeding a dollar limit.  Most recent example...elimination of "stretch IRA features."  Just one of many coming.  Remember, Social Security was once non-taxable income to recipients.

R48

 


Do you have a solution or are you asking for a solution to your perceived problem?  Not sure if you are trying to help or asking for help.


Not asking for help...just trying to answer the original poster on the greatest danger for investors.  Others can ponder.

I am continually working on a solution for my family.  This is Job #1, as far as I'm concerned. 

For instance, my strategy of rather than leaving my kids an IRA (which they now cannot "stretch"), I instead started IRAs in their names, starting at their age 12, is now paying off.  They can hold these for a lifetime.  I suspect IRAs will be the first asset to be under assault.  

And BTW, I see where NY City is now advancing a TAX ON BILLIONAIRES, an annual tax on increases in wealth, regardless if realized or not.  At a high percentage rate.

This is what happens...you start with billionaires, then millionaires...eventually you get to taxing Intruder on his wealth. ..or anyone who has any wealth.  And you can't easily flee.  In New Jersey, currently if you sell your house and move to Florida, you pay NJ a tax (I think 2%) on the sale/proceeds. 

Standby folks.

R48...glad to be domiciled in Florida!


R48 is correct. Having my permanent residence in France, I've seen first hand what happens when punitive taxes are levied against the wealthy: they depart. Next step: impose huge taxes on all working people to finance social programs and an early retirement age.  

So, unemployment is high and foreign investment is low.

Ironically, France is a good place for US retirees, as a French-US tax treaty fully protects SS, pension, and IRA income. Plus property taxes in Paris are very low, about 0.1% of value.  

Finally, tuition at France's excellent engineering schools is about 1200€ per year. 

N.


We aren't France, and what happens in France won't necessarily happen here.  Departing from France is a couple of hours drive, departing from the US is far different.  If the billionaire leaves, so what?  His business probably won't, because there are reasons businesses are located where they are.  This is just spin.  Billionaires spend much of their time giving money away, I don't see them leaving for a 2% wealth tax.  Large Corporations also only have a limited ability to leave if taxed again.

What is pretty clear is that US Federal income is down, and spending is up, up, up.  Meanwhile, demographics are changing rapidly.  The protests we see today, and the over-reaction and push-back represent the last gasp for income inequality and the beginning of income equality.  " You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

bilperk, owned himself since 1946


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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face

Of course we will. We always do. The Wall Street wonks that give so freely to the liberal cause and the ruling class always win. Think special health care and retirement bennies. Even the socialist/communist countries have their special people. AOC and the squat will leave office as millionaires.


@Intruder wrote:

@bilperk wrote:

@norbertc wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

@Anitya wrote:

@retiredat48 wrote:

 

IMO, the greatest danger investors face, long term, is the country's sped-up move toward socialism, in the extreme sense, and the risk of wealth confiscation of various forms.  Such as nationalizing companies/industries; wealth taxes; IRA surtaxes; dollar caps on all forms of assets and their benefits; inability to go elsewhere with your wealth, etc.  You may simply be prohibited from owning anything exceeding a dollar limit.  Most recent example...elimination of "stretch IRA features."  Just one of many coming.  Remember, Social Security was once non-taxable income to recipients.

R48

 


Do you have a solution or are you asking for a solution to your perceived problem?  Not sure if you are trying to help or asking for help.


Not asking for help...just trying to answer the original poster on the greatest danger for investors.  Others can ponder.

I am continually working on a solution for my family.  This is Job #1, as far as I'm concerned. 

For instance, my strategy of rather than leaving my kids an IRA (which they now cannot "stretch"), I instead started IRAs in their names, starting at their age 12, is now paying off.  They can hold these for a lifetime.  I suspect IRAs will be the first asset to be under assault.  

And BTW, I see where NY City is now advancing a TAX ON BILLIONAIRES, an annual tax on increases in wealth, regardless if realized or not.  At a high percentage rate.

This is what happens...you start with billionaires, then millionaires...eventually you get to taxing Intruder on his wealth. ..or anyone who has any wealth.  And you can't easily flee.  In New Jersey, currently if you sell your house and move to Florida, you pay NJ a tax (I think 2%) on the sale/proceeds. 

Standby folks.

R48...glad to be domiciled in Florida!


R48 is correct. Having my permanent residence in France, I've seen first hand what happens when punitive taxes are levied against the wealthy: they depart. Next step: impose huge taxes on all working people to finance social programs and an early retirement age.  

So, unemployment is high and foreign investment is low.

Ironically, France is a good place for US retirees, as a French-US tax treaty fully protects SS, pension, and IRA income. Plus property taxes in Paris are very low, about 0.1% of value.  

Finally, tuition at France's excellent engineering schools is about 1200€ per year. 

N.


We aren't France, and what happens in France won't necessarily happen here.  Departing from France is a couple of hours drive, departing from the US is far different.  If the billionaire leaves, so what?  His business probably won't, because there are reasons businesses are located where they are.  This is just spin.  Billionaires spend much of their time giving money away, I don't see them leaving for a 2% wealth tax.  Large Corporations also only have a limited ability to leave if taxed again.

What is pretty clear is that US Federal income is down, and spending is up, up, up.  Meanwhile, demographics are changing rapidly.  The protests we see today, and the over-reaction and push-back represent the last gasp for income inequality and the beginning of income equality.  " You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

bilperk, owned himself since 1946


Just what kind of income equality do you see? And will the middle class pay for it?


 

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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face


@outandabout wrote:

We must first deal with the virus, then the impact it has and will have on our economy before I will be fully invested again. Add to my first concerns is the unrest in this country that is worsening daily and later this year we have an election. Yeah, I'm concerned that things are far from over. JMHO of course..............but then it's my money I'm concerned about, not yours.

Stay safe.


My thoughts exactly. 

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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face


@GLI2019 wrote:

I'd like to live long enough, Bill, to witness at least the beginning of what you call "the last gasp" of the current Gilded Age.

Historically, this country saw one Gilded Age go down.  Why not another?

Bob

P.S. to Ryan. Gilded Age describes a historical period. Those who use "confiscate" are using a loaded political term.


Hi Bob,

At 74 I might not live long enough to see it either, but I know it is coming, as historically it can only go so far before people demand a change and organize to get it.  What is lacking now is the cohesive organization, IMO.  It will come with the young.

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@Gary1952 wrote:

Exactly what year is it down? Maybe folks won't leave the US but will move to no income tax states. 

U.S. Tax Revenue by Year

Here's a record of income for each fiscal year since 1789. Tax receipts fell off during the recession but started setting new records by FY 2013.6

 
Fiscal Year Revenue
FY 2021$3.86 (estimated)
FY 2020$3.71 trillion (estimated)
FY 2019$3.46 trillion (actual)
FY 2018$3.33 trillion
FY 2017$3.32 trillion
FY 2016$3.27 trillion
FY 2015$3.25 trillion
FY 2014$3.02 trillion
FY 2013$2.77 trillion
FY 2012$2.45 trillion
FY 2011$2.30 trillion
FY 2010$2.16 trillion
FY 2009$2.10 trillion
FY 2008$2.52 trillion
FY 2007$2.57 trillion
FY 2006$2.41 trillion
FY 2005$2.15 trillion
FY 2004$1.88 trillion
FY 2003$1.78 trillion
FY 2002$1.85 trillion
FY 2001$1.99 trillion
FY 2000$2.03 trillion
FY 1999$1.82 trillion
FY 1998$1.72 trillion
FY 1997$1.58 trillion
FY 1996$1.45 trillion
FY 1995$1.35 trillion
FY 1994$1.26 trillion
FY 1993$1.15 trillion
FY 1992$1.09 trillion
FY 1991$1.05 trillion
FY 1990$1.03 trillion
FY 1989$991 billion
FY1988$909 billion
FY 1987$854 billion
FY 1986$769 billion
FY 1985$734 billion
FY 1984$666 billion
FY 1983$601 billion
FY 1982$618 billion
FY 1981$599 billion
FY 1980$517 billion
FY 1979$463 billion
FY 1978$399 billion
FY 1977$356 billion
FY 1976$298 billion
FY 1975$279 billion
FY 1974$263 billion
FY 1973$231 billion
FY 1972$207 billion
FY 1971$187 billion
FY 1970$193 billion
FY 1969$187 billion
FY 1968$153 billion
FY 1967$149 billion
FY 1966$131 billion
FY 1965$117 billion
FY 1964$113 billion
FY 1963$107 billion
FY 1962$100 billion
FY 1961$94 billion
FY 1960$93 billion
FY 1789–1959$1.1 trillion

"What is pretty clear is that US Federal income is down, and spending is up, up, up.  Meanwhile, demographics are changing rapidly.  The protests we see today, and the over-reaction and push-back represent the last gasp for income inequality and the beginning of income equality.  " You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

bilperk, owned himself since 1946



@Gary1952 Income is down from what it would be without tax cuts, COVID, and such.

  • "The bulk of federal tax revenue comes from income taxes, payroll taxes, and corporate taxes.
  • FY 2021 federal revenues aren't enough to pay for spending. That creates a $966 billion budget deficit.
  • Tax cuts implemented by Presidents Bush, Obama, and Trump to drive economic growth further reduced revenues"
  •  
  •  
  • https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762
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Re: The Greatest Danger Investors Face


@Gary1952 wrote:

Of course we will. We always do. The Wall Street wonks that give so freely to the liberal cause and the ruling class always win. Think special health care and retirement bennies. Even the socialist/communist countries have their special people. AOC and the squat will leave office as millionaires.


@Intruder wrote:


Just what kind of income equality do you see? And will the middle class pay for it?


 


https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/110215/brief-history-income-inequality-united-states...

No the middle class won't pay for it.  The 1% or so will pay for it.  Government can create through policies whatever income spectrum they want.  The people decide who is in the government.  The middle class prospered the most when the top !% controlled the least amount of income.  It is simple math.

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