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Re: OT:California state universities to cancel most in-person classes through fall semester


@Statsguy wrote:

What seems to have been forgotten is the quarantine was to flatten the curve, I.e. not overwhelm the hospitals.  It saves lives only because the hospitals can treat those who have covid virus

ststs


In several nations--Australia, New Zealand, some Asian nations--quarantine has saved lives by virtually stopping the pandemic.  There is almost no area left beneath the curve in these nations.  Perhaps,  given insufficient community spirit in the US, all that we could reasonably hope for was to slow the rate of hospitalizations.  It makes me sad to think that may be true.  We are now at the mercy of pharmaceutical science and technology for our salvation.  We seem to be incapable of saving ourselves.

John

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Re: OT:California state universities to cancel most in-person classes through fall semester


@jjustice wrote:

In several nations--Australia, New Zealand, some Asian nations--quarantine has saved lives by virtually stopping the pandemic.  There is almost no area left beneath the curve in these nations.  Perhaps,  given insufficient community spirit in the US, all that we could reasonably hope for was to slow the rate of hospitalizations.  It makes me sad to think that may be true.  We are now at the mercy of pharmaceutical science and technology for our salvation.  We seem to be incapable of saving ourselves.

John


John

My humble request to you (and other elders): Save yourself and forget about others. Let them save themselves. If they want to die by not being careful, it is their problem. This is the best opinion I can give for now.

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Re: OT:California state universities to cancel most in-person classes through fall semester

"In several nations--Australia, New Zealand, some Asian nations--quarantine has saved lives by virtually stopping the pandemic.  There is almost no area left beneath the curve in these nations."

This is like the anti-vaxers who deny their children vaccination, believing others will provide herd immunity to protect them. Some believe vaccination causes autism. Then there are epidemics, as recently was the case in the U.S. with measles. 

The world population is mobile, so those countries mentioned face future cases. Keeping businesses closed, leading to bankruptcy, unemployment, food and goods shortgages, and people losing their mental and physical health indoors is a stupid option. 

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Re: OT:California state universities to cancel most in-person classes through fall semester

@jjustice 

"In several nations--Australia, New Zealand, some Asian nations--quarantine has saved lives by virtually stopping the pandemic. "

Perhaps so, perhaps not...there are multiple variables at work in what actually causes death from the SARS-CoV2 virus along with how such deaths are diagnosed and reported. But let's look at this form of logic another way....

If in Australia, New Zealand and some Asian nations, their governments banned travel by automobile, they would virtually stop highway deaths. Should automobile travel then be banned and then gradually allowed to resume by limiting speeds to in phased steps of 5 mph?

BruceM

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Re: OT:California state universities to cancel most in-person classes through fall semester


@BruceM wrote:

@jjustice 

"In several nations--Australia, New Zealand, some Asian nations--quarantine has saved lives by virtually stopping the pandemic. "

Perhaps so, perhaps not...there are multiple variables at work in what actually causes death from the SARS-CoV2 virus along with how such deaths are diagnosed and reported. But let's look at this form of logic another way....

If in Australia, New Zealand and some Asian nations, their governments banned travel by automobile, they would virtually stop highway deaths. Should automobile travel then be banned and then gradually allowed to resume by limiting speeds to in phased steps of 5 mph?

BruceM


@BruceM 

More sophistry?  On the way in the ambulance to the hospital, feel free to have the cars in front of you go as slow as you wish. 

Btw, point me to your post where you were concerned about automobile death rates before this pandemic hit ...  

ctyankee

 

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Re: OT:California state universities to cancel most in-person classes through fall semester

" On the way in the ambulance to the hospital, feel free to have the cars in front of you go as slow as you wish. "

I'm not a public policy-making official, but I'd imagine certain vehicles would be exempt from the newly regulated very slow speed, to include fire and emergency, just as there are exemptions to sheltering in place.

"btw, point me to your post where you were concerned about automobile death rates before this pandemic hit "

I won't because I can't as I'm not concerned about it, I simply accept it as a risk, along with the panoply of other risks we all seemingly accept as part of life. Its those like you who reason that deaths are not acceptable from a recently added risk, whose logic I'm trying to understand.

BruceM

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Re: OT:California state universities to cancel most in-person classes through fall semester

Bruce, before any temporary measures were taken, was there a maximum number of COVID-19-related deaths at which you were in favor of some temporary measures to save lives?  If yes, what is that number?  If no, really?  No limit?  

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Re: OT:California state universities to cancel most in-person classes through fall semester

"100,000 people died." It got to my wife and started crying during dinner earlier now. She started saying "mostly elderly, like us..."

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Re: OT:California state universities to cancel most in-person classes through fall semester

Nat,

I saw some figures explained by an epidemiologist that showed the frequency of covid-19 cases is among younger people--e.g., under age 45--but the severity (e.g., mortality) occurs with the over 60s--our group.

I was unaware of this distinction while wintering in Florida, but the misbehavior of younger folks where we were staying was enough to convince us to return home weeks earlier than planned.

One might say (I am saying) that those careless, thoughtless younger folk who congregate in large groups are weaponized.

As for the 100,000 dead, that figure is: a. an underestimate and b. didn't have to happen.

My best to you and your family.

Bob

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Re: OT:California state universities to cancel most in-person classes through fall semester

Agree with Bob that being in a "high risk" group doesn't necessarily mean a greater likelihood of infection itself, but does mean a greater possibility of a nasty experience if infected.

But there does seem to be some general misconception that serious outcomes from this disease are "only" (or mainly) a problem for "old" people.  I'm personally somewhat offended even by the use of the qualifying term "only."  Like, what?  Old people don't matter as much?  Younger people don't have grandparents?  This attitude has, of course, been encouraged by humanity-deficient morons, some of them in political office, who suggest that older people should be willing to make human sacrifices of themselves at the altar of "The Economy."

New information about the behavior of the virus seems to arrive weekly, and for a while now I've been seeing an increasing number of news articles about infected people in their teens through 30s having heart attacks and strokes--something which is not "supposed" to be happening at that age--because of whatever the virus is doing when its multiplication hijacks and inflames their circulatory systems.  Regardless of age group, this thing ain't nothin' to fool around with.

In that regard, in a nation which leads the world in numbers of infections and deaths, it seems to me that all this "re-opening" is the beginning of a big national experiment, with ordinary citizens--and especially workers--as guinea pigs, to see just how contagious this virus can be.  I most sincerely hope that I'm wrong, but I foresee massive new outbreaks, especially in places which have taken the fewest precautions.

There's also a surreal air about the whole political discussion, and the behavior of groups of maskless non-distancing people who gather in groups because they just feel like it, or are tired of thinking about the subject, or claim some kind of amoral "right" to act irresponsibly and thereby to endanger others.  The virus has its own rules, and, much as we might wish otherwise, they're not subject to human negotiation or socioeconomic convenience.

The same is true of global warming, whose non-negotiable rules are called physics, and in this I see clear parallels between wishful thinking, or outright science denial, concerning both virus and planet.  And in both cases, usually by the same people.

Or I could be completely mistaken.  After all, I haven't felt quite normal ever since Bill Gates' diabolical vaccine experiment injected me with a microchip.  :-)   Sheesh.

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