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Frequent Contributor

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?

I do not believe most people would rather stay at home, collecting state money, when they could and are able to get out and go to work. For me, work gives one a sense of purpose and it completes your day. I think a person would have to be a little bit nuts to prefer to stay at home all day and receive government money.

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Contributor ○

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?


@FatKat wrote:

I do not believe most people would rather stay at home, collecting state money, when they could and are able to get out and go to work. For me, work gives one a sense of purpose and it completes your day. I think a person would have to be a little bit nuts to prefer to stay at home all day and receive government money.


I know some nutty people then.  When I worked on a factory floor out of high school I discovered there were two types of machines: those you run and those that run you.  I can tell you from experience that the second type of machine is a killer.  They require no thought to run.  Around 10:00 in the morning you start getting a headache so you take some aspirin. You take some more at lunch and at 3:00 break.  We got paid at noon on Friday.  There were many days my friends and I just didn't go back to work after lunch. The Friday or Monday sick call in was notorious. The factory never had a full work force on those days.

The $600 federal bonus puts unemployment benefits around $20-25 per hour.  That is a pretty good wage for unskilled labor in most parts of the country.  So do I think people would stay home if they made more on unemployment, the answer is yes.  Definitely.  Without a doubt.  Especially if they didn't like their job.  I can tell you for a fact that I would have.  And, I have nieces and nephews that I think are doing that today.

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Frequent Contributor

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?

Yes @Mustang , if they make more money not working, but that is not fair to working people, as it is not so good some machines give people headaches. I admit I'm am not as worldly as some. I have always been far happier having something constructive to do, even it it is not of much value. Doing nothing is such a determent to old people.

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Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?


@FatKat wrote:

Yes @Mustang , if they make more money not working, but that is not fair to working people, as it is not so good some machines give people headaches. I admit I'm am not as worldly as some. I have always been far happier having something constructive to do, even it it is not of much value. Doing nothing is such a determent to old people.


I agree it isn't fair to working people.  And, I'm not that same almost high school dropout that worked on a factory floor.  I guarantee that not a single person who knew that kid back then would ever have thought he would end up with a masters degree teaching accounting classes at the university.

But, the unemployed aren't necessarily staying at home doing nothing.  Some smoke dope to get rid of the boredom.  Some find part-time cash jobs that are not reported.  Think about it.  80% of the workforce is still working. There are no day care centers. Who better to take care of the kids than a laid-off relative or neighbor working for cash.  I had an aunt that did that when I was a kid.

P.S. I have known people that will work a job long enough to qualify for unemployment then get themselves fired (usually from missing work).  They then live on unemployment.  When it runs out they find a job and do it again.

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Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?


@Mustang wrote:

@FatKat wrote:

Yes @Mustang , if they make more money not working, but that is not fair to working people, as it is not so good some machines give people headaches. I admit I'm am not as worldly as some. I have always been far happier having something constructive to do, even it it is not of much value. Doing nothing is such a determent to old people.


I agree it isn't fair to working people.  And, I'm not that same almost high school dropout that worked on a factory floor.  I guarantee that not a single person who knew that kid back then would ever have thought he would end up with a masters degree teaching accounting classes at the university.

But, the unemployed aren't necessarily staying at home doing nothing.  Some smoke dope to get rid of the boredom.  Some find part-time cash jobs that are not reported.  Think about it.  80% of the workforce is still working. There are no day care centers. Who better to take care of the kids than a laid-off relative or neighbor working for cash.  I had an aunt that did that when I was a kid.


Good you got it together academically. I was sort of an egghead, but worked hard on our farm and later fished.

I am not so against the smoking dope, but taking pills, amphetamine and narcotics is very dangerous and harmful. I drank a bit when I was younger. I liked a nice Bourbon and some Single malt Scotch whiskey, with a good cigar, but now I cannot drink, just too old and worn out; I have to try best to get through the evening and go to bed.

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Explorer ○○○

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?

Here's an interesting article of what the risks are and how you can manage them.  Being retired, I can avoid things.   This article tells you choir singing, church, eating at restaurants, going to funerals, etc. are risky even if one person has the virus.  It all has to do with duration of exposure.  I pity the poor clerks working at Costco, Target, Walmart, etc.  

 

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

 

So no matter what the government allows, I am going to use this article as a guideline until there is a vaccine or proven treatment. 

We have 2 sets of friends who we have "seen" a couple times.  One time we ate dinner outside with us each sitting as far away as possible.  The other time we sat outside until it got cool.  We wore masks until we ate.  I know it's a risk but we all had been FaceTiming, know each others' habits, so it is a calculated risk. 

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Participant ○

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?

Your states are different or you're not familiar with how things work.

1. If you're called back to work you've been laid-off from you're no longer eligible for unemployment.

2. If you get fired from a job you're not eligible for unemployment.

At least that's how it works in every state I've lived in.

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Frequent Contributor

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?


@Mustang wrote:

@FatKat wrote:

I do not believe most people would rather stay at home, collecting state money, when they could and are able to get out and go to work. For me, work gives one a sense of purpose and it completes your day. I think a person would have to be a little bit nuts to prefer to stay at home all day and receive government money.


I know some nutty people then.  When I worked on a factory floor out of high school I discovered there were two types of machines: those you run and those that run you.  I can tell you from experience that the second type of machine is a killer.  They require no thought to run.  Around 10:00 in the morning you start getting a headache so you take some aspirin. You take some more at lunch and at 3:00 break.  We got paid at noon on Friday.  There were many days my friends and I just didn't go back to work after lunch. The Friday or Monday sick call in was notorious. The factory never had a full work force on those days.

The $600 federal bonus puts unemployment benefits around $20-25 per hour.  That is a pretty good wage for unskilled labor in most parts of the country.  So do I think people would stay home if they made more on unemployment, the answer is yes.  Definitely.  Without a doubt.  Especially if they didn't like their job.  I can tell you for a fact that I would have.  And, I have nieces and nephews that I think are doing that today.


Again, Where can you stay home if called back and continue to get the $600 + state UI?  NOWHERE.  If you don't go back, your employer will cut you off because his insurance premium goes up based on the number and length of employees filing.  This entire story about people staying home was started because some people didn't want those employees to get that extra $600.  So they made it up.  And this is different than employees preferring not to be called back, or requesting to be laid off if the employer is doing a partial reduction.  Most people would like a vacation paid at more than there normal salary.  I'm sure some are really sad when they get called back.  But that isn't what is being said in some quarters.

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Frequent Contributor

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?

"P.S. I have known people that will work a job long enough to qualify for unemployment then get themselves fired (usually from missing work).  They then live on unemployment.  When it runs out they find a job and do it again."

Wrong again, you don't get unemployment compensation if you are fired for cause.  Your employer will fight it.  You don't get it if you quit.  Your employer will fight it.  You can only get it if your employer shuts down or lays you off.  And currently, States have been having trouble even getting those payments to people.  Either their sites are overloaded or their applications are so difficult that many are rejected.

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Frequent Contributor

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?


@royal4 wrote:

Your states are different or you're not familiar with how things work.

1. If you're called back to work you've been laid-off from you're no longer eligible for unemployment.

2. If you get fired from a job you're not eligible for unemployment.

At least that's how it works in every state I've lived in


 Yup, that's how it works.  It is consistent as each state's unemployment fund is managed by the Federal government.

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Contributor ○

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?

You are correct.  You cannot collect unemployment insurance if you are called back to work.  I have actually posted that comment a couple of times myself.  When I was writing that I wasn't thinking about being called back. I was trying to explain why someone would stay at home collecting unemployment instead of working by relating an experience I had when I was working in a factory.  Not all work is satisfying.  The times I collected unemployment I had to look for a new job. There wasn't any call back.  But I can see where you might have inferred that.

I tacked on that P.S relaying what friends told me.  I really don't know how they did it but I was told they got fired and collected unemployment insurance.  Perhaps they won the appeal.  Perhaps the employer didn't fight the appeal.  I have heard of that happening.  Today there is an extensive appeal process if someone feels it is unsafe to go back to work.  The state will send inspectors out to the employer's facilities.  I'm assuming there was a similar appeal process back in the 70s.

Now you have me wondering what that guy down the street is doing.  He seems to constantly bounding back and forth between working and being laid off.

 

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Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?

Costco is one of the businesses Doing it correctly. EVERYONE. Must wear a mask. Even customers to go in. However Home Depot is not doing it correctly. I was told via a corporate phone call that they cannot tell employees to wear a mask where it is not mandated by authorities. 


@gilvkona wrote:

Here's an interesting article of what the risks are and how you can manage them.  Being retired, I can avoid things.   This article tells you choir singing, church, eating at restaurants, going to funerals, etc. are risky even if one person has the virus.  It all has to do with duration of exposure.  I pity the poor clerks working at Costco, Target, Walmart, etc.  

 

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

 

So no matter what the government allows, I am going to use this article as a guideline until there is a vaccine or proven treatment. 

We have 2 sets of friends who we have "seen" a couple times.  One time we ate dinner outside with us each sitting as far away as possible.  The other time we sat outside until it got cool.  We wore masks until we ate.  I know it's a risk but we all had been FaceTiming, know each others' habits, so it is a calculated risk. 


 

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Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?


@Gary1952 wrote:

Costco is one of the businesses Doing it correctly. EVERYONE. Must wear a mask. Even customers to go in. However Home Depot is not doing it correctly. I was told via a corporate phone call that they cannot tell employees to wear a mask where it is not mandated by authorities. 


@gilvkona wrote:

Here's an interesting article of what the risks are and how you can manage them.  Being retired, I can avoid things.   This article tells you choir singing, church, eating at restaurants, going to funerals, etc. are risky even if one person has the virus.  It all has to do with duration of exposure.  I pity the poor clerks working at Costco, Target, Walmart, etc.  

 

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

 

So no matter what the government allows, I am going to use this article as a guideline until there is a vaccine or proven treatment. 

We have 2 sets of friends who we have "seen" a couple times.  One time we ate dinner outside with us each sitting as far away as possible.  The other time we sat outside until it got cool.  We wore masks until we ate.  I know it's a risk but we all had been FaceTiming, know each others' habits, so it is a calculated risk. 


 


Most HD business comes from contractors who call large orders  into the local HD where the order is assembled and packaged for pick up in the parking lot by HD employees. Contractor pays in advance and picks up the materials without coming within 6  feet of HD employee. Under OSHA rules employer is required to determine workplace hazards for employees. HD can follow state laws requiring when masks must be worn by employees.

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Contributor ○○○

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?

@bilperk 

Not quite

From the Balance

"In most cases, if you quit your job voluntarily, you will not be eligible to collect unemployment benefits unless you quit for a good reason. But there are exceptions. If you quit for what is known as “good cause,” you may be eligible. Also, since unemployment programs are administered by states, your eligibility may vary depending on where you live.1"

Due to current circumstances, the article goes on to say...

"States are relaxing eligibility guidelines due to the coronavirus, and the federal government is expanding coverage to include more unemployed workers. Here's an update on the new benefit guidelines and on COVID-19 unemployment and sick leave compensation."

Many retail business are open locally so it is not a case of violating some unilateral edict.

I didn't question the manager as he was awfully busy. But if you'd like you can give him a call and ask if you really want to know

360-828-3902

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Explorer ○○○

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?

If you look at the link I posted, it tells your risk of being exposured is equal to amount of contagion multiplied by the amount of time you are exposed.  So the people at the greatest risk are workers at places like Costco, Target, Home Depot,etc.  We who go in for 15 or 20 minutes so we are at low risk relatively speaking.

I feel very safe at Costco.   I have not been to HD but have to take a trip this week.  I would be surprised if. employees don’t wear masks.  

I pity all the poor customer facing employees at retail stores.  I have been friendly over the last few years with one of the pharmacy techs at Costco.  I picked up a prescription as the panic was beginning.  He told me he was probably going to retire a few months early because of all this.  I haven’t seen him since .  He did the right thing.

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Contributor ○○○

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?

"Costco is one of the businesses Doing it correctly. EVERYONE. Must wear a mask. Even customers to go in. However Home Depot is not doing it correctly. I was told via a corporate phone call that they cannot tell employees to wear a mask where it is not mandated by authorities. "

@Gary1952 

Let's put that in perspective.

During the 2017/2018 flu season, about mid Nov through March, the CDC estimates the following happened as a result primarily of the B/H1N1 Swine Flu epidemic in the US

Number symptomatic: 45 million

Medical office visits due to flu symptoms: 21 million

Flu diagnosed hospitalizations: 810,000

Influenza Deaths: 61,000 (186 children, 20% of whom had been vaccinated)

So do you think masks should become a requirement at the beginning of each flu season?

BruceM

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Explorer ○○○

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?

Bruce, you are looking at it the wrong way.  I as employee or I as customer am going to make the free choice to wear a mask at work or in a store if a pandemic is happening or the flu season is real bad.  I don’t care what the government or my employer says.  Those Asian people I used to laugh at who were wearing masks were right all along. 

For those of you who have not read the article I posted, here is a key point:

Remember the formula: Successful Infection = Exposure to Virus x Time”

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Frequent Contributor

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?


@BruceM wrote:

@bilperk 

Not quite

From the Balance

"In most cases, if you quit your job voluntarily, you will not be eligible to collect unemployment benefits unless you quit for a good reason. But there are exceptions. If you quit for what is known as “good cause,” you may be eligible. Also, since unemployment programs are administered by states, your eligibility may vary depending on where you live.1"

Due to current circumstances, the article goes on to say...

"States are relaxing eligibility guidelines due to the coronavirus, and the federal government is expanding coverage to include more unemployed workers. Here's an update on the new benefit guidelines and on COVID-19 unemployment and sick leave compensation."

Many retail business are open locally so it is not a case of violating some unilateral edict.

I didn't question the manager as he was awfully busy. But if you'd like you can give him a call and ask if you really want to know

360-828-3902


I see nothing in there that says if someone refuses to come back after being recalled, that they are eligible to continue to get benefits.  If the government says the business can open, particularly a dollar tree where people don't work on top of each other, then the risk would be deemed to be low.   At the very least, a claim of workplace health safety by an employee would have to be investigated and approved.   In addition, the employer can cause the employee to wait for months to get paid by requesting denial and then asking for arbitration.  Yes there is some loosening, but it is along the lines of not having to look for another job and report your search each week.  Again, either he was opened illegally, or he has chosen not to fight his employees staying home and would rather just bitch about it.

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Participant ○○

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?

Perhaps even the employees at the Dollar Tree are unsafe and they know it.  Is the bathroom clean?  Does it have ventilation or are they in a tiny room, without soap or ventilation? 

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Frequent Contributor

Re: When — and How — Should the U.S. Economy Reopen?


@BruceM wrote:

"Costco is one of the businesses Doing it correctly. EVERYONE. Must wear a mask. Even customers to go in. However Home Depot is not doing it correctly. I was told via a corporate phone call that they cannot tell employees to wear a mask where it is not mandated by authorities. "

@Gary1952 

Let's put that in perspective.

During the 2017/2018 flu season, about mid Nov through March, the CDC estimates the following happened as a result primarily of the B/H1N1 Swine Flu epidemic in the US

Number symptomatic: 45 million

Medical office visits due to flu symptoms: 21 million

Flu diagnosed hospitalizations: 810,000

Influenza Deaths: 61,000 (186 children, 20% of whom had been vaccinated)

So do you think masks should become a requirement at the beginning of each flu season?

BruceM


US deaths 17000.  A vaccine is available and reduces the likelihood of getting the flu.  Many people refuse to get the vaccine but we don't require them to.  The flu is less contagious than COVID.  Less dealy than COVID.  Treatable unlike COVID.  Did you complain when you saw the sign that said: "No shirt, no shoes, no service" when you took your wife out to dinner?

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