cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
     
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Europe vs US COVID-19 results...

Europe has about 2.25 times out population, and yet fewer cases at 2,411,069 to our 2,548,996.  Europe has a higher death rate per case, but a lower death rate per population at 191,089 deaths for Europe and 125,804 for the US.  Despite having 2.5 times the population, Europe only has 52% more deaths.

There are many possible reasons for this, but in my opinion, poor communication and individual behavior have lead to our problem being worse.  No matter where you sit, the lack of trust currently in this country is keeping us from attacking this pandemic in a uniform way.

0 Kudos
43 Replies
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...


@bilperk wrote:

Europe has about 2.25 times out population, and yet fewer cases at 2,411,069 to our 2,548,996.  Europe has a higher death rate per case, but a lower death rate per population at 191,089 deaths for Europe and 125,804 for the US.  Despite having 2.5 times the population, Europe only has 52% more deaths.

There are many possible reasons for this, but in my opinion, poor communication and individual behavior have lead to our problem being worse.  No matter where you sit, the lack of trust ( discipline + a coherent plan ) currently in this country is keeping us from attacking this pandemic in a uniform way.


 

veni vidi vici vti
0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...

Bill,

I just addressed this subject in a reply to you in the other thread. As always, my post shows true insight and is frankly brilliant.

Would you please copy it to this thread? I'm using a **bleep** phone.

TIA,

N.

Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...

I was reading another post about how his city was demanding wearing of face masks and how this mandatory on behavior was like the Gestapo in WW2 Germany.

This is an example of our relationship with ideology of personal liberty. My belief is this is uniquely American. 

Europe still as the ghost of feudalism, while the USA is uniquely capitalistic and individualistic.

I claim no personal exception other than being more introspective in my advanced years.

 

 

 

 

Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...


@norbertc wrote:

Bill,

I just addressed this subject in a reply to you in the other thread. As always, my post shows true insight and is frankly brilliant.

Would you please copy it to this thread? I'm using a **bleep** phone.

TIA,

N.


N,

Your wish is my command.

Bills,

The US has significantly lower per capita Covid-19 deaths than Belgium, France, Sweden, the UK, Spain, and Italy. Germany is looking better and Holland slightly better.

Several smaller countries slammed their door shut early on. I've been in one of them for four months. That's mainly why Europe as a whole looks better than the US.

The drivers of the death statistics are complex, to put it mildly. France, Italy, and Spain are Latin countries that enjoy personal contact; Germany is not. Germany has good discipline and tends towards conformist behavior; the US is not. Etc etc.

Presently were seeing a surge of cases in hot states where people use air conditioning and go indoors. Problem! Europe has few inside air conditioned spaces. 

You get the picture. It's very difficult to know which administrations deserve a gold star. There are too many variables.

Let's hope a vaccine is available soon. Meanwhile, stay away from places with poor ventilation and wear a mask if you must be with others inside. Outside it probably doesn't matter.

I approve of playing shuffleboard.

N.

 

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...


@Bentley wrote:

@bilperk wrote:

Europe has about 2.25 times out population, and yet fewer cases at 2,411,069 to our 2,548,996.  Europe has a higher death rate per case, but a lower death rate per population at 191,089 deaths for Europe and 125,804 for the US.  Despite having 2.5 times the population, Europe only has 52% more deaths.

There are many possible reasons for this, but in my opinion, poor communication and individual behavior have lead to our problem being worse.  No matter where you sit, the lack of trust ( discipline + a coherent plan ) currently in this country is keeping us from attacking this pandemic in a uniform way.


 


When half the country doesn't trust the other half in any way, be it news sources, data, or leaders, then that country can not act in a unified way to attack a problem.  If we had acted like this in 1941, we might all be speaking German and N could have become our President.  No one wants that :o}

 

Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...


@bilperk wrote:

@Bentley wrote:

@bilperk wrote:

Europe has about 2.25 times out population, and yet fewer cases at 2,411,069 to our 2,548,996.  Europe has a higher death rate per case, but a lower death rate per population at 191,089 deaths for Europe and 125,804 for the US.  Despite having 2.5 times the population, Europe only has 52% more deaths.

There are many possible reasons for this, but in my opinion, poor communication and individual behavior have lead to our problem being worse.  No matter where you sit, the lack of trust ( discipline + a coherent plan ) currently in this country is keeping us from attacking this pandemic in a uniform way.


 


When half the country doesn't trust the other half in any way, be it news sources, data, or leaders, then that country can not act in a unified way to attack a problem.  If we had acted like this in 1941, we might all be speaking German and N could have become our President.  No one wants that :o}


I just finished the new Churchill biography by Andrew Roberts. Loved it, very long and detailed. I hadn't realized that Churchill was almost alone in warning about the German threat. Things were just as divided then as they are now. But there was Churchill. It's thanks to him that we're still speaking English. He knew how important it was to drag Roosevelt into the battle. 

My mom was German Luftwaffe, my Dad was US Army. 

N.

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...


@norbertc wrote:

@bilperk wrote:

@Bentley wrote:

@bilperk wrote:

Europe has about 2.25 times out population, and yet fewer cases at 2,411,069 to our 2,548,996.  Europe has a higher death rate per case, but a lower death rate per population at 191,089 deaths for Europe and 125,804 for the US.  Despite having 2.5 times the population, Europe only has 52% more deaths.

There are many possible reasons for this, but in my opinion, poor communication and individual behavior have lead to our problem being worse.  No matter where you sit, the lack of trust ( discipline + a coherent plan ) currently in this country is keeping us from attacking this pandemic in a uniform way.


 


When half the country doesn't trust the other half in any way, be it news sources, data, or leaders, then that country can not act in a unified way to attack a problem.  If we had acted like this in 1941, we might all be speaking German and N could have become our President.  No one wants that :o}


I just finished the new Churchill biography by Andrew Roberts. Loved it, very long and detailed. I hadn't realized that Churchill was almost alone in warning about the German threat. Things were just as divided then as they are now. But there was Churchill. It's thanks to him that we're still speaking English. He knew how important it was to drag Roosevelt into the battle. 

My mom was German Luftwaffe, my Dad was US Army. 

N.


I believe it was Churchill who said something to the effect that "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else. "

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...


@bilperk wrote:

@norbertc wrote:

Bill,

I just addressed this subject in a reply to you in the other thread. As always, my post shows true insight and is frankly brilliant.

Would you please copy it to this thread? I'm using a **bleep** phone.

TIA,

N.


N,

Your wish is my command.

Bills,

The US has significantly lower Belgium, France, Sweden, the UK, Spain, and Italy. Germany is looking better and Holland slightly better.

Several smaller countries slammed their door shut early on. I've been in one of them for four months. That's mainly why Europe as a whole looks better than the US.

....


 

At the same time, the US has significantly higher per capita Covid-19 deaths than Netherlands, Ireland, Switzerland, Luxemburgo, Portugal, Germany, Denmark, Romania, Austria, Russia, Hungary, Finland, Slovenia, Estonia, Norway, Belarus, Poland, Bulgaria, Island, Ukraine, Croatia, and Slovakia. To make this list not too long, I skipped several countries that have a lower number of deads. 

LINK

Every country has its own cultural characteristics and idiosyncrasy but it is clear that the US did better than a few European countries and worse than most. It does not take much to understand why we are doing so badly but I will leave it here otherwise those that don't like freedom of expression will start calling the ref. 

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Participant ○

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...

Europe as I have always come to think of it has a population of around 480 million. That is western Europe and newly incorporated eastern European countries, formerly a part of the Soviet bloc. Russia, Turkey, and the stans are part of the Eurasian continent and not Europe per se. So that will shift the per capita ratio upwards. The other frequently misunderstood notion is of Europe as a country or federation. It is neither, being an economic area. This means that individual countries will respond on their own accord. For example, within Schengen countries, borders were closed. As such you would need to compare each country separately with the US. The per capita measure has an obvious flaw. Europe is a densely populated part of the world, where populations are distributed through cities, towns, villages, and rural. Public transportation is a normal means of getting around. Germany was clearly better prepared than any of us. That may have been fortuitous. Italy was the first to get hammered. Milan's textile industry has close links to China. The UK, like the US, was in denial so reacted slowly. So comparing countries is frankly a bit of a waste of time. Politicizing the pandemic also hampers efforts to contain it.

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Participant ○○○

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...


@bilperk wrote:

@norbertc wrote:

@bilperk wrote:

@Bentley wrote:

@bilperk wrote:

Europe has about 2.25 times out population, and yet fewer cases at 2,411,069 to our 2,548,996.  Europe has a higher death rate per case, but a lower death rate per population at 191,089 deaths for Europe and 125,804 for the US.  Despite having 2.5 times the population, Europe only has 52% more deaths.

There are many possible reasons for this, but in my opinion, poor communication and individual behavior have lead to our problem being worse.  No matter where you sit, the lack of trust ( discipline + a coherent plan ) currently in this country is keeping us from attacking this pandemic in a uniform way.


 


When half the country doesn't trust the other half in any way, be it news sources, data, or leaders, then that country can not act in a unified way to attack a problem.  If we had acted like this in 1941, we might all be speaking German and N could have become our President.  No one wants that :o}


I just finished the new Churchill biography by Andrew Roberts. Loved it, very long and detailed. I hadn't realized that Churchill was almost alone in warning about the German threat. Things were just as divided then as they are now. But there was Churchill. It's thanks to him that we're still speaking English. He knew how important it was to drag Roosevelt into the battle. 

My mom was German Luftwaffe, my Dad was US Army. 

N.


I believe it was Churchill who said something to the effect that "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else. "


That is what's called Churchillian Drift.  While attributed to him, there are no original sources for it.   Even the National Churchill Museum says while attributed to him, he did not say it.  Its like many things...while we know Patrick Henry made an impassioned speech, there is no evidence he said "Give me liberty or give me death."  The first written account of it appeared in 1817 and was written by William Wirt who was three years old in 1775; then, like now, the Virginia legislature does not keep a verbatim account of speeches made.  (Nonetheless, we were required to memorize parts of it in 7th grade and I can still recite the version we were taught - there is more than one version.)

Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...


@Mortmain wrote:

Europe as I have always come to think of it has a population of around 480 million. That is western Europe and newly incorporated eastern European countries, formerly a part of the Soviet bloc. Russia, Turkey, and the stans are part of the Eurasian continent and not Europe per se. So that will shift the per capita ratio upwards. The other frequently misunderstood notion is of Europe as a country or federation. It is neither, being an economic area. This means that individual countries will respond on their own accord. For example, within Schengen countries, borders were closed. As such you would need to compare each country separately with the US. The per capita measure has an obvious flaw. Europe is a densely populated part of the world, where populations are distributed through cities, towns, villages, and rural. Public transportation is a normal means of getting around. Germany was clearly better prepared than any of us. That may have been fortuitous. Italy was the first to get hammered. Milan's textile industry has close links to China. The UK, like the US, was in denial so reacted slowly. So comparing countries is frankly a bit of a waste of time. Politicizing the pandemic also hampers efforts to contain it.


I don't understand what you're trying to say. What separates Europe from Asia has always been the Ural mountains, the Ural River, the Caucasus, the Caspian Sea, and the Black Sea. LINK

Certainly, new countries were added after the fall of the Soviet Union. According to the United Nation, there are 44 independent countries in Europe right now.   

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Participant ○○○

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...

What separates Europe from Asia has always been the Ural mountains, the Ural River, the Caucasus, the Caspian Sea, and the Black Sea, then the Bosporus, Sea of Marmora, and the Dardanelles Strait.

So, most of Turkey is in Asia - the European bit is small.  Similarly most of Russia, though not most of its population, is in Asia.

I see no way Europe can have more than twice America's population.  From your 690 million, take out Asiatic Turkey and Asiatic Russia and you'll be below 600 million.

 

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Participant ○○○

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...

In all honesty, I think Europe is not a good comparison.  The EU, with a population of 446 million, excluding the UK, is a better comparison for the US.  They've basically done better in terms of cases per capita, and about the same for deaths per capita.  Two months from now, we'll be worse on deaths too.

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...


@SJ60 wrote:

What separates Europe from Asia has always been the Ural mountains, the Ural River, the Caucasus, the Caspian Sea, and the Black Sea, then the Bosporus, Sea of Marmora, and the Dardanelles Strait.

So, most of Turkey is in Asia - the European bit is small.  Similarly most of Russia, though not most of its population, is in Asia.

I see no way Europe can have more than twice America's population.  From your 690 million, take out Asiatic Turkey and Asiatic Russia and you'll be below 600 million.

 


The difference lies more in the people's sociological development and cultural history. What we have come  to refer to as western culture, places great value on human personaity and individually . This seems like what the USA has most in common with Britian, France, Belgium and Italy. 

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Participant ○

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...

Americans love of fast food (being out of shape) also has to be taken into account. We would need to compare obesity rates, hypertension rates etc...  Yes/No?

 

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Participant ○○○

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...

This summer I won't be going to Scotland.  Just as well.  Here we have not closed public restrooms, in Scotland - not sure about the rest of Britain - many public toilets are closed.  Apparently, tourists visiting Balmoral Castle are using the outdoors as a toilet and leaving the wipes on the grounds.  Her Majesty has a sense of humor and has been known to mingle with the tourists (as well as crashing a wedding and a graduation) dressed as an ordinary old lady, I wonder if she is still mingling.  

In Scotland, the summer brings the highland games across Scotland to celebrate Scotland and its history and culture.  They have all been canceled.  For the Braemar Gathering where I had already purchased seats, it is only the second time since the modern games were founded in 1832 that they have been canceled.  They were not canceled during the Boer War or WW1, WW2 or the 1918 pandemic.  The only other time was for the funeral of Princess Diana which was on the day the games were to be held.  Its recognized as too risky even outside to have that many people congregated. 

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Contributor ○○

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...

I know of no other country where wearing/not wearing a mask is political and tribal. Mind boggling stoopid.

Highlighted
Explorer ○○

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...


@pudman wrote:

I know of no other country where wearing/not wearing a mask is political and tribal. Mind boggling stoopid.


The virus itself quickly morphed into a political tool. I stayed home more than I ever had for months as did millions of others. Stayed 6ft away, did not cough or sneeze on anyone, watched business shut down, and unemployment skyrocket.  Without some balance between shutting the economy down and partially opening, I'm afraid, we'd be in really bad shape. 

 

Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: Europe vs US COVID-19 results...

Speaking of Europe, it's interesting to look at Sweden, which didn't shutdown its economy.  Here is the data.

It shows that there has been a surge in new cases since the end of May, just like we see in certain parts of the US.  But the theory, for the US, is that the 'early' reopening of the economy here led to that surge.  If so, there is no explanation for Sweden, given that Sweden never shut down their economy!

Also note from the link that the total death count seems to have flattened at around 5400 while the daily death count seems to be approaching zero.  In fact, the Sweden models are predicting a total of 5,754 deaths by October 1.

ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
0 Kudos
Announcements