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Contributor ○○○

Re: Coronavirus success story

Norbert - " Sadly, we have a small group actually cheering the soaring case count for political reasons. How pathetic is that? "

 

You are a real class act, Norbert.

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Re: Coronavirus success story

Then you agree? Politics and medicine don't mix well. (Love the faux outrage and bold face, Pud.)

Daily US deaths per million have fallen from about 8 in mid April to just over 2 now. That's excellent, IF the downtrend can be maintained. Some here want to ignore the all-important fatality rate.

Only Latin America is now showing an uptrend on fatalities.

If Mustang is right that some or all of the new cases being measured are due to expanded testing, that suggests that the virus isn't as deadly as previously thought. Again, IF it's true. 

Meanwhile it's possible that more and more people have acquired immunity; and that this number will soar when vaccines are available.

Unfortunately, I'm also reading that immunity might only be temporary.

In Denmark there's support for the government's decision to lock its borders.  Yet in the US the government was attacked when it closed its borders to China and then to Europe. We now know that if the US administration had acted even faster, thousands of lives would have been saved.  It was France and Italy which didn't take the virus threat seriously. I personally saw large groups of Chinese tourists in Paris during February and early March.

What's truly shameful are those who criticize the administration no matter what it does; though I don't get the administration's slowness to insist on mask usage and distancing ... or the opposition's support for BLM protests during a pandemic.

N.

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@DrVenture wrote:
[H]e said nothing about churches, bars or strip clubs. So my Friday, Saturday and Sunday plans are all still intact.

I think you got your order mixed up!  You end the activities in the church - not the other way around.  You ask God's help at the end so you are fully covered! 

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@norbertc wrote:

 

What's truly shameful are those who criticize the administration no matter what it does; though I don't get the administration's slowness to insist on mask usage and distancing ... or the opposition's support for BLM protests during a pandemic.

N.


That is three totally different thoughts.  The first has nothing to do with this thread.  The second may go down in history as the biggest medical response failure since 1918.  The third is about humanity and accepting an overdue opportunity to change our culture for better, but also nothing to do with this thread.

@chang  started this thread by suggesting that success was likely due more to QUALITY mask wearing in his part of the world.  This simple answer is what is keeping the US from controlling the spread until a vaccine is available.  A whole lot of non-medical people speculating on what will or won't work will not help at all.

Get the highest quality mask you can find.  Some medical supply stores are starting to have some available.  Wear it.

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@norbertc wrote:

@CarlosDS wrote:

@norbertc wrote:

@CarlosDS wrote:

I wonder is challenge those that say anything without proof or directly lie in their post is against the forum policy. I wonder why is Ryan always called by those who play loose with facts or never produce documentation? 

Asking for facts is not insulting is keeping everybody honest. 


Carlos,

Holiday and you are the most politicized guys posting here. Please. Yes, let's be honest.

...

N.


We will have to disagree on this one. I always post links to all of my opinions, you fail to produce a single one. On the few occasions that you have produced a reference, it has nothing to do with COVID and you don't even read it.  Who is political here?


It's a great debate tactic, isn't it? You're losing an argument and change the subject to the inclusion of references ... instead of replying logically and honestly to the point being made. Nice try.

@RyanM will likely lock the thread thanks to our inability to focus on issues instead of people. Too bad. 

I actually put some thought into my posts. All you guys do is see political innuendo. It's pathetic.

N.


You already lost this and many other previous arguments. This is a reason why you're begging Ryan to lock this thread. I am answering your post to make clear that I always answer honestly and try to contribute to the conversation.  

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Re: Coronavirus success story

One more day at Geneseo where COVID is under control: two cases yesterday and one the day before.

At Letchworth park the prevention is mixed. By my estimates, 30% of people have no masks, 50% have it at hand but don't wear it, and only 20% wear the mask when close to other people. Fortunately, trails are wide and we could keep the distance.

 

gene.gif

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Re: Coronavirus success story

@CarlosDS  @bilperk 

It sounds like you agree with me about wearing a surgical quality mask when around others. And practice distancing. That's what I do.

My first day in downtown Copenhagen in a country that has (so far) mastered the virus, I saw just a handful of people wearing masks. Again, what Denmark did do was close its borders immediately. Yet there was huge outcry in the US at this idea. THAT, my friend, is a massive medical response failure.

It's much easier to stop it at the border than to try to control it once it's loose in the nation. 

No comment on your third point, except to say that good intentions often have undesirable consequences. 

N.

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Re: Coronavirus success story

Norbert - " Again, what Denmark did do was close its borders immediately. Yet there was huge outcry in the US at this idea. THAT, my friend, is a massive medical response failure. "

 ONE person (very ostentatiously and publicly) decided whether or not to close the borders, the "massive medical response failure" is HIS alone.

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Re: Coronavirus success story

@pudman 

That's true. The administration acted correctly on China, but hesitated on Europe. Mistake. 

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Re: Coronavirus success story

I do not agree that shutting the borders would have stopped the spread as it was already here before we even knew it existed.  We would have had to shut America's borders to every single country in the world, including our own returning citizens.  And we would have had to do that in late December. Not requiring masks and social distancing and smaller gatherings much earlier was the biggest failure, IMO.  Of the three Masks are the most important.  Doctors wear masks but can't social distance.  They generally are fine.  Not mandating masks now is stupid and just political pandering.

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Re: Coronavirus success story

Canada appears to be somewhat of a success story. Trudeau has not been outwardly hostile or dismissive of their top medical experts. 'Dr. Bonnie Henry, a physician and the provincial health officer of British Columbia, has become a kind of folk hero in Canada during the crisis. “She stands out for really clear messaging and her empathy." '

They are nearly self-sufficient in domestic PPE production. Have closed the border to the U.S. The hospitals have been prepared. Their economic relief package and general safety net are functioning well.

'Public health experts note that it’s important to have a spokesperson who can regularly speak to people about the pandemic in a consistent way. Henry, at least so far, has all the qualities that public health departments typically look for in a public face. Many people find her soft voice to be comforting, and she’s taken time to remind Canadians to be good to each other and to come together in the face of a unified threat. She typically ends her calls and presentations with a trademark line: “This is our time to be kind, to be calm and to be safe.” '

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Re: Coronavirus success story

@bilperk 

I agree that requiring masks and distancing now when entering confined spaces would be wise in areas where the virus has been detected. 

The virus may have been present earlier, but given the stupidity of the Italians and French, Europe should have been closed off immediately. 

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@DrVenture wrote:

'Public health experts note that it’s important to have a spokesperson who can regularly speak to people about the pandemic in a consistent way. Henry, at least so far, has all the qualities that public health departments typically look for in a public face. Many people find her soft voice to be comforting, and she’s taken time to remind Canadians to be good to each other and to come together in the face of a unified threat. She typically ends her calls and presentations with a trademark line: “This is our time to be kind, to be calm and to be safe.” '

 Agreed.  NYT has an article (dated 9 May 2020, not sure that I can link it), "Taiwan Weapon Against Coronavirus: An Epidemiologist as Vice President."  Dr. Chen Chien-jen is a Johns Hopkins trained epidemiologist and an expert in viruses, with deep experience in fighting SARS-2003.  He has both the political clout and the technical expert to lead Taiwan successfully in this fight against COVID-19.  He stated that Evidence is more important than Politics.  

Of course, just as a reference.


 


 

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Re: Coronavirus success story

As has been suspected, COVID is re-emerging in states that previously have "beat it back".

Re-opening too soon is believed to be a primary factor. “I don’t think there’s any question about that anymore. Even in California, we opened up too fast,” said John Swartzberg, a doctor who is a clinical professor emeritus at the University of California at Berkeley."

Larger gatherings of all kinds and people refusing to wear masks are obviously part of the problem too.

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Re: Coronavirus success story

Virginia is seeing an moderate increase in cases.  Governor said if we back out of phase 3, schools will not reopen.  I don't go to many places, but most people at the grocery stores I go to (Kroger and Walmart) are wearing face masks.   I had family over this morning.  Everyone brought their own food and we sat outside as a breeze was blowing. 

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Re: Coronavirus success story

Putting our policies at odds with the scientific and medical community was a choice. It is impossible to ignore that it has been the chosen path in the U.S.A. The people are paying the price, the economy is paying the price, the medical community is paying the price, and if there is any justice, those who picked the wrong side in this battle will be held accountable at some point. I doubt that it will ever be enough to account for all the unnecessary suffering though.

No progress or change can ever take place without an understanding of our own failings. Or yes, history will repeat itself.

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Re: Coronavirus success story

Some people seem to have turned to be pathetically fearful of the reality. They are tweeting with attacks on Dr. Fauci and CDC. There seems to be political interference in health matters. Tenn. goverment website has not been updated for more tha 24 hours because the vertical axis scale has to go way up. It seems that many of these people are really fearful of the reality.

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Re: Coronavirus success story

Tenn. has updated and of course, as expected the number of new cases went through roof - 3300+ today  from 2000+ in the last week. Finally, our local hospital is raising alarms with a seventh death (totally 12 in our county but state count is only 7) today and running ICUs at full capacity. Trust your local independent news outlets because they do not depend on the government. The pandemic doctor of our local hospital says "We have let our guard down." That says it all.

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Re: Coronavirus success story

We are not seeing it (knock on wood) and we have an open economy.  And, I assure you I am not ignoring reality.

I just looked at the latest updates.  Statewide tests are around 7,500 per day (7 day moving average).  Number of new cases did increase a little in the last 30 days from around 325 to around 500 per day. Number of hospital admissions remained flat at around 40 per day over the last 30 days  The number of people in the hospital (hospital census) has also stayed pretty flat at around 700.

Hospitals are not overly crowded.  ICU beds are now being used for other things but 37.6% are available.  83.3% of the respirators are available.

And in the last 30 days the average number of deaths has dropped from roughly 15 to 5 statewide.

I know that its an impossible wish but I really hope that crap that is hitting the southern states doesn't come this way.

https://www.wishtv.com/news/coronavirus/isdh-450-new-positive-cases-2-more-deaths/

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@ECEPROF wrote:

Some people seem to have turned to be pathetically fearful of the reality. They are tweeting with attacks on Dr. Fauci and CDC. There seems to be political interference in health matters. Tenn. goverment website has not been updated for more tha 24 hours because the vertical axis scale has to go way up. It seems that many of these people are really fearful of the reality.


Trying to get out of a crisis by telling lies (to oneself or to others) is not an effective way to deal with a new problem (Covid 19).  Crisis is truly a test of character.  I have made new friends or dumped existing friends based on how they behaved in a crisis.  Wish that can be done with family members as well.

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