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Re: Coronavirus success story

My non-scientific observation where I live, mostly from the grocery store and the home improvement stores, is that senior citizens take it a lot more seriously than younger folks.  In many Virginia localities, those under 30 are now accounting for a large percentage of infections.  I list the city names only where folks might know the locality, there are many more: 

Central Va (Lynchburg area) 51%

Va Beach 48%

Norfolk 47%

Newport News/Hampton 44%

In Prince William County almost 10% of all new cases are young folks between 10 and 19. In Prince William County, children under 10 are 4% of new cases.  

I can't find a breakdown of hospitalizations by age group, but ICU beds are not running out and elective surgeries are back on. 

Still, we are one of the few states where cases are declining as testing ramps up.  Our shutdown has perhaps been done with a bit more fine tuning than other states as we are the only state with an MD as governor.  (He was a practicing physician until elected).  Since our governor may only serve one term (unique in the nation), he doesn't have to worry about poll numbers.  He can therefore mandate, we are a "strong governor" state, the new rules being proposed by the state Dept. of Labor and Industry. 

 

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Re: Coronavirus success story

Weakness in colonial times is a strength in Pandemic!

BTW, there is a lot of ethnic diversity in Asian countries too.  For us sitting in the US, those countries might look homogenous, but before the colonial times a number of those countries did not exist in their current form.  Colonial masters for administrative convenience and out of trading territory among the colonial masters (like a monopoly game!), created the current form of most Asian countries we see now.  Of course, there are a couple of exceptions, but far few.  I do not think diversity is the problem.  

I think we are too much into self congratulatory and lack sufficient introspection, which does not work as well against an enemy we can not talk to or use guns against.  So, the lock downs are forcing a lot of people to reflect (introspection), which is a good thing for social progress.  Business leaders have been very impressive compared to our political leaders in being active on social issues, including protests against Fakebook! 

Let us make make lemonade!

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Re: Coronavirus success story

Glad to hear there are places having success.

The thing that amazes me about the situation in the US is the inability of many of my fellow Americans to coalesce around common sense measures.  This should not be political, but then these days everything has become political.

Common sense, experiment, and cost-benefit analysis are all that is needed.

Shutting down the entire economy without nuance is stupid because the costs quickly become much worse than the benefits, like someone proposing a cure of holding your head under water.  It is also unsustainable.

Everyone wearing masks, when there is so much evidence for it and the cost is basically non-existent, is such a common sense thing to do that you are volunteering for the Darwin Awards if you oppose it.  It can't possibly hurt, will likely help, and is without a downside of significance, except perhaps a bit of embarrassment.  

But you get the fragmentation of the media and jerks with bad incentives (artificial controversy drives ratings and profits) and you get the situation we have now.

 

P. S. Forgive me a personal digression, but I think it illuminates.  I have diabetes and a couple of the other co-morbidities you hear talked about that are risk factors for bad outcomes with Covid, along with a middle aged paunch.  I am mid-fifties.  Saw my diabetes doctor for an annual checkup last week and asked him what my risks are for a bad outcome with Covid.  He said I have a 1 in 3 chance of death if I get the virus.  Definitely sobering.  I will continue to be very careful.  Perhaps if I were 20 years old with a 1 in a thousand chance of a problem I would feel differently.  I'm definitely pulling for a vaccine and/or other remedies.  It's not just those in their 80's that are at risk.  And this ain't just the flu, unless you are analogizing to the 1918 Spanish Flu.

 

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@chang wrote:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/06/look-inside-thailand-prevented-coronavirus-gainin...

Today marks 36 straight days in Thailand without a single case of Covid-19. (Excluding repatriations: Thailand has been slowly allowing citizens abroad to return, all of whom go into a high-security quarantine for 15 days. There have been a few cases each day coming mainly from Middle East countries. But no "new" cases arising from transmission from one person to another within the country.)

Yes, I wear a mask, I use hand sanitizer, I get my temperature checked entering shopping malls, restaurants, supermarkets, 7-Elevens, etc., and I register my entry/exit from every public place using an extremely efficient phone app. No public hearings, no hysteria, no protests, just easy, efficient compliance with common sense precautions. Life isn't back to normal yet, but it's close.

 


Congratulations! Unfortunately here, it is seen by some as a violation of civil liberties to wear a mask in public during a pandemic. We have chosen herd immunity as a default. It's unfortunate. In Asian cultures wearing a mask, when ill or concerned, is considered good hygiene. Sometimes I wonder if some Americans know how to wipe....well you know.

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Re: Coronavirus success story

We not only need a cultural change (or at least some habitual changes: e.g., wearing mask, keeping social distance, and temperature sensing/measuring) to face COVID-19, but a life-and-death urgency and one accord as a nation.  U.S. all came together as one to combat WWII, this is similar to a war condition, IMHO.

Another factor that benefits Taiwan (maybe Hongkong, etc., too) is the past experience with SARS, H1N1, H5N1, etc..  Thus, these Asian countries are already equipped of various mitigation/prevention systems and their citizens are well-trained for such outbreaks.  Taiwan, for example, mobilized their systems/people in early January; tracked travellers, traced all cases.  In addition, transparent information broadcast/unified nationwide education were all keys for success this time around.   

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Re: Coronavirus success story

Certain segments of the US population are regressing mentally.   They can not process anything that is more than two syllables or not binary.  If you tell them to exercise caution, they say you are taking their freedom away, putting them in a straight jacket, and shutting down the economy.  Nobody in the media or politicians are talking about success stories around the world and how those are being achieved to help this segment of the population see beyond two inches in front of their nose.  We are in a vicious cycle of co-dependency.  The economic damage in the US is many folds worse than it is in any of the East Asian countries.  Everyday we are squandering away the good fortune of not having been touched by World War II when most of the rest of the world was ravaged.  Come to think of it, the leaders reflect the intelligence of the people that elect them.

Edit: sorry for being a downer. 

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@Bizman wrote:

Everyone wearing masks, when there is so much evidence for it and the cost is basically non-existent, is such a common sense thing to do that you are volunteering for the Darwin Awards if you oppose it.  It can't possibly hurt, will likely help, and is without a downside of significance, except perhaps a bit of embarrassment.  


That's ironic. Here (in Thailand), not wearing a mask outside would be a source of embarrassment, mainly because you'd be in the minority and viewed as ignorant, reckless or selfish.

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@Anitya wrote:

Certain segments of the US population are regressing mentally.


I saw a couple of videos of public hearings held by local municipalities. About wearing masks. Basically, anybody off the street could speak for, I don't know, maybe 1-2 minutes, addressing what I assume was a city council or a committee of a state legislature. Every speaker was foaming at the mouth (particularly dangerous without a mask), shouting hysterically about how wearing a mask was an affront to God, Liberty and the Constitution, and basically making a damned fool of themselves. I was embarrassed as an American to watch it.

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@chang wrote:

@Anitya wrote:

Certain segments of the US population are regressing mentally.


I saw a couple of videos of public hearings held by local municipalities. About wearing masks. Basically, anybody off the street could speak for, I don't know, maybe 1-2 minutes, addressing what I assume was a city council or a committee of a state legislature. Every speaker was foaming at the mouth (particularly dangerous without a mask), shouting hysterically about how wearing a mask was an affront to God, Liberty and the Constitution, and basically making a damned fool of themselves. I was embarrassed as an American to watch it.


Public hearings to ask whether masks are OK to wear in the middle of a pandemic?  Were these people in a coma for a century?  We police our own people with tanks, military arsenal & tactics.  We carpet bombed whole communities outside the US.  We are fooling ourselves and delusional.  I think we pride in being selfish.

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Re: Coronavirus success story

Yes, on one snipped I saw from FL, the speaker was saying the physician was ignorant and mask wearing interfered with G-d's design for breathing.

There is hysteria, disbelief and denial and some shrugging.  That of course changes when one gets sick.  A neighbor recently had a new child, her husband is an ER nurse.  When this entire thing started, he was put up in a hotel to protect her and their two children, so she gave birth without him around.  She explained the new protocol for mothers: when a pregnant woman is tested and tests positive, the baby is literally taken from her the moment after birth and treated as if it has the virus.  If the mother doesn't test positive, she still gives birth without the father, the family around. A good friend had heart attack, a bypass and then surgery to drain his lungs.  Two weeks alone in a hospital, not even his wife could be there.  (He is doing well now.)  We have two hospitals, one is designated Covid positive and the other for negative patients.  Yet, just a mile from the Covid negative hospital it was revealed that a nursing home was still putting patients who have Covid (not just testing positive) in the same room with those who tested negative - they have had 9 Covid deaths.  The entire thing is surreal. 

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@rhythmmethod wrote:
In Asian cultures wearing a mask, when ill or concerned, is considered good hygiene.

Yes, we benefit from the fact that mask-wearing in Asia wasn't that uncommon before Covid-19. Last year we had particularly bad air pollution coming from burning forests in Burma. In the north (Chiang Mai) it was especially bad. So it was already common to see people wearing masks.

Registering your entry/exit from stores, restaurants, parks, etc. (it takes 2 seconds using a very efficient phone app) is for my protection. If an infected person is discovered, they will know who was in the same place at the same time as that person. Nobody is worried about "Big Brother". A pandemics is not the time to get paranoid about that.

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Re: Coronavirus success story

 

We may need to invoke the Defense Production Act to make all the Darwin Awards we are going to need.

https://www.kmov.com/news/he-posted-his-regrets-over-attending-a-party-in-california-the-next-day-he...

 

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@chang wrote:

@Bizman wrote:

Everyone wearing masks, when there is so much evidence for it and the cost is basically non-existent, is such a common sense thing to do that you are volunteering for the Darwin Awards if you oppose it.  It can't possibly hurt, will likely help, and is without a downside of significance, except perhaps a bit of embarrassment.  


That's ironic. Here (in Thailand), not wearing a mask outside would be a source of embarrassment, mainly because you'd be in the minority and viewed as ignorant, reckless or selfish.


 

I agree with Chang (there is a first for everything) that not wearing a mask makes you an ignorant, reckless, and selfish dude.  Unfortunately, we have many ignorant, reckless, and selfish dudes in our Country.

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Re: Coronavirus success story

I need to be tactful here, but it is the tribal mentality this country has evolved into that is the cause. There are plenty of reasons that bombard us each day in the news. It is wrong and will be this way until the end now.


@chang wrote:

@Anitya wrote:

Certain segments of the US population are regressing mentally.


I saw a couple of videos of public hearings held by local municipalities. About wearing masks. Basically, anybody off the street could speak for, I don't know, maybe 1-2 minutes, addressing what I assume was a city council or a committee of a state legislature. Every speaker was foaming at the mouth (particularly dangerous without a mask), shouting hysterically about how wearing a mask was an affront to God, Liberty and the Constitution, and basically making a damned fool of themselves. I was embarrassed as an American to watch it.


 

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Re: Coronavirus success story

UK to allow quarantine-free travel with nearly 60 countries — but not the U.S.

That says it all, where we are heading. Look at the rate of increase. Even if one percent of the infected people die, it is a huge number. Even Boris Johnson does not want the people from US.

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@chang wrote:

@Anitya wrote:

Certain segments of the US population are regressing mentally.


I saw a couple of videos of public hearings held by local municipalities. About wearing masks. Basically, anybody off the street could speak for, I don't know, maybe 1-2 minutes, addressing what I assume was a city council or a committee of a state legislature. Every speaker was foaming at the mouth (particularly dangerous without a mask), shouting hysterically about how wearing a mask was an affront to God, Liberty and the Constitution, and basically making a damned fool of themselves. I was embarrassed as an American to watch it.


If I watch the behavior of my dog, I see a creature that cannot control it's impulses very well. I put on my shoes for whatever reason, and she assumes that a walk is eminent. She bubbles with excitement that cannot be easily controlled.

I see the same behavior in young children, say 2 to 4 years old. They see candy and their internal impulse is set.  Any external force restraining this "candy impulse" really does feels like an attack on "personal liberty" to them.  

AND ..... THEY WILL TANTRUM. 

So when I see the public behavior you describe Chang, I see underdeveloped adults. I see children in old bodies who simply cannot control their impulses. They genuinely feel like they are being oppressed just as a child would when they did not receive that serving of ice cream exactly when it was demanded.

This problem may have a political expression, but it is really a failure of religion.

Marketing has trained Americans to obey every impulse without questioning any moral or ethical consequence. As a result, there is a vein of American religion which has adopted false political, moral, and ethical narratives in support pf popular marketing pitches.

As an example, I see many cultures where it is common to bring a sense of morality into food choices. This simply does not happen in America. Our modern religion says "if it is good for me, then it is good"  Likewise, "if it is uncomfortable for me, then it is evil".  Therefore, burn the rain forest so you can triple-size MY big mac for a buck. Give me the 55 gallon drum of soda along with a railroad sized hopper of french fries.

This is God's will because it makes me feel good when my stomach is full.

But, aren't I really just a child who cannot control his impulse to eat? A child who will fight anyone suggesting temperance? I just don't care about how my behavior affects other people. It is still all about me.

I realize that this is an oversimplification of very complex ideas. Typing limits expression.

The Michigan Attorney General once said that a popular politician was like a "Petulant Child". Maybe her wise words should be considered as a frank appraisal of modern American culture. One that will not soon change.

Holiday

 

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@Holiday wrote:

...

I realize that this is an oversimplification of very complex ideas. Typing limits expression.

...

Holiday


If words are not sufficient to express "complex ideas", then nothing else is likely to work. However, "complex" is not the same thing as "insightful" or "meaningful".

A failure of religion?  I don't know. Americans are innovative and entrepreneurial, but can be difficult at times.

N.

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@norbertc wrote:

@Holiday wrote:

...

I realize that this is an oversimplification of very complex ideas. Typing limits expression.

...

Holiday


If words are not sufficient to express "complex ideas", then nothing else is likely to work. However, "complex" is not the same thing as "insightful" or "meaningful".

A failure of religion?  I don't know. Americans are innovative and entrepreneurial, but can be difficult at times.

N.


As Kathryn Schulz, author of Being Wrong: Adventure in the Margin of Error, says in her wonderful linked TED talk, we are all frequently wrong, but are sure we are right most of the time even so.  A little more personal and intellectual humility, and a lot less vitriol, would go a long way to making the world a better place.  But these are prescriptions for all of us, not just the evil other on the other side of the debate/political divide.

From memory, she says something like: the miracle of our minds is not that we see reality as it is with perfect fidelity, it is that we can imagine things that are totally different.  Which is the font of all of our creativity, and why we make stupid mistakes.

Since religion was brought up, we are all sinners and flawed.  Let's try to each improve ourselves a bit rather than just search for scapegoats on the other side of the divide to pillory.

Kathryn Schulz - On Being Wrong

https://www.ted.com/talks/kathryn_schulz_on_being_wrong

“Stepping outside the feeling you are right about everything and saying ‘I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong,’ can be the single greatest moral, intellectual, and creative leap you can make.”
— Kathryn Schulz

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Re: Coronavirus success story

 

Mixed messages from "science."   

Fauci Feb no reason "whatsoever" to wear a mask.

WHO Mar 30 no need for masks.

Surg Gen Mar 31 no need for masks.

Galbraith (The Affluent Society)  "The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."   

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Coronavirus success story


@johnjtaylor wrote:

Fauci Feb no reason "whatsoever" to wear a mask.

WHO Mar 30 no need for masks.


I haven't followed the news/history of the pandemic on a worldwide basis. Assuming these people really said what you said they said, I am simply dumbfounded. It flies in the face of common sense. "No reason whatsoever"? That's simply comparable to "the Earth is flat".

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