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Frequent Contributor

@Chang: Good news from Thailand

Thailand goes 100 days without locally transmitted COVID-19 case.

https://tinyurl.com/y2cfms3u

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand

Vietnam with higher population has lower death cases than Thailand. On July 28th Vietnam Went Nearly 100 Days Without a Local Coronavirus Case. A New Outbreak Has Shattered the Calm

This is what they have done after they found Covid-19

"Danang’s authorities shut down two hospitals where two victims visited and ordered patients, medical staff, caregivers and family members — about 7,000 people in total — to be quarantined for 14 days, local media reported. A third hospital was also locked down, VnExpress reported. The city issued a stay-at-home order for 15 days for six of eight districts starting Tuesday, the local government said on its website. Residents are prohibited from going out except for essential reasons like buying food and medicine, for health emergencies or working at factories. Residents must keep a two-meter separation from each other."

Please let me know if you can enforce the above in the US

Or maybe Indian style (link)

 

 

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand

FD

Even with police patrolling does not seem to work there. They have enjoyed the freedom for almost as my age.  I was born before independence as a King's subject. But, the number based on the population density is not as bad as here. Here is the numbers from the top countries in the death/million population. 49 deaths/million in India is not bad compared to 571 deaths/million here.

Screenshot_2020-09-02 Coronavirus Update (Live).png

 

 

We live in a secluded area here in Cookeville - not like Atlanta. So far, we have been safe because my son and his wife get the grocery for the family. We order some of the items in Walmart and Amazon and get them delivered. We get delivery almost everyday.

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand


@FD1001 wrote:

"Danang’s authorities shut down two hospitals where two victims visited and ordered patients, medical staff, caregivers and family members — about 7,000 people in total — to be quarantined for 14 days, local media reported. A third hospital was also locked down, VnExpress reported. The city issued a stay-at-home order for 15 days for six of eight districts starting Tuesday, the local government said on its website. Residents are prohibited from going out except for essential reasons like buying food and medicine, for health emergencies or working at factories. Residents must keep a two-meter separation from each other."

Please let me know if you can enforce the above in the US


Of course not for a variety of reasons.  First is the federalist system.  The central US government does not have the authority.  Most of the state governors did close their economies but not all.  That is because there are states with vast reaches of thinly populated territory.  Even those governors who tried to implement things like masks found resistance.  Indiana's governor tried to impose a fine for not wearing a mask.  Several county sheriffs said they would not enforce it and to tell the truth anyone who challenged such a fine in court would win.  He did not have the authority.  The legislature passes laws not the governor.

But even then governors do not control what happens in cities.  Mayors do and the mayors in our major cities cannot keep the rioters from burning down businesses.  Even if arrested prosecutor are releasing rioters.  They can't get the rioters off the street for a single night.  14 days would be an eternity.

There isn't any way something like that could be enforced across the entire country.  Can you just imagine the headlines if it was even attempted?

P.S.  I'm sure you knew the answer even before you asked the question.

 

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand

There is a way for the federal movement to enforce mask wearing in theory.  States are responsible for having their drinking age at 21 (there are some exceptions).  The 1984 National Minimum Drinking Age  Act withholds federal monies from states which don't have a minimum drinking age of 21 (with some exceptions).  Note I said in theory; in practice its another matter. 

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand


@FD1001 wrote:

Vietnam with higher population has lower death cases than Thailand. On July 28th Vietnam Went Nearly 100 Days Without a Local Coronavirus Case. A New Outbreak Has Shattered the Calm

This is what they have done after they found Covid-19

"Danang’s authorities shut down two hospitals where two victims visited and ordered patients, medical staff, caregivers and family members — about 7,000 people in total — to be quarantined for 14 days, local media reported. A third hospital was also locked down, VnExpress reported. The city issued a stay-at-home order for 15 days for six of eight districts starting Tuesday, the local government said on its website. Residents are prohibited from going out except for essential reasons like buying food and medicine, for health emergencies or working at factories. Residents must keep a two-meter separation from each other."

Please let me know if you can enforce the above in the US

Or maybe Indian style (link)

 

 


I replied earlier that the answer is no.  The President does not have the authority.  I also mentioned that the sheriffs in Indiana refused to enforce our governor's order because he did not have the authority to create fines and prison terms.

A federal court just told the Governor of Pennsylvania that he does not have the authority to shut down Pennsylvania or pick winners and losers.  Basically our Constitution still applies.  I'm sure this decision will result in appeals and other lawsuits in other states.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/federal-judge-rules-pennsylvania-governors-coronavirus-restr...

On page 65 in Conclusions the judge said, "The court closes this Opinion as it began by recognizing that the Defendants' actions were undertaken with the good intention of addressing a public health emergency.  But even in an emergency the authority of the government is not unfettered.  The liberties protected by the Constitutions are not fair weather freedoms - in place when times are good but able to be cast aside in times of trouble."

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand

The judge is wrong, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. A similar ruling happened in Michigan and the Appeals Court overruled it. I wonder if the fact the judge was appointed by Trump has anything to do with his ruling. 

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand

"the Constitution is not a suicide pact."

+1.

@Mustang

I hope and pray that this guy (the judge) does not get the virus and dies in two days after that. Who knows? It could happen to anyone.

 

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand


@CarlosDS wrote:

The judge is wrong, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. A similar ruling happened in Michigan and the Appeals Court overruled it. I wonder if the fact the judge was appointed by Trump has anything to do with his ruling. 


Aren’t you always telling everyone else never to disagree with what a doctor tells you? But—boom!—“the judge is wrong!” LOL

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand

 

 


@chang wrote:

@CarlosDS wrote:

The judge is wrong, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. A similar ruling happened in Michigan and the Appeals Court overruled it. I wonder if the fact the judge was appointed by Trump has anything to do with his ruling. 


Aren’t you always telling everyone else never to disagree with what a doctor tells you? But—boom!—“the judge is wrong!” LOL


Says the guy that wants to intoxicate people. LOL

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand

 

Old saying that the Constitution is not a suicide pact dates to criticism of Lincoln suspending habeus corpus.    Justice Jackson and others used the notion to argue for -- and against -- civil liberty.

Fromm, in Escape From Freedom, observed that a substitute for the freedom to do something is often allegiance to a new authoritarian system telling you what to do.

Doesn't history show that people desire freedom and will fight for it, but that many others want to escape from freedom and its pesky decisions?

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand

@johnjtaylor 

I did not know the historical context for 'the Constitution is not a 'suicide pact' argument. Fortunately for all of us, Lincoln's suspension of the habeas corpus helped him to organize the military and beat the secessionist forces (wiki). It is possible that we would not have the actual Country were Lincoln supported the suicide pact.   

 

 

 

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand

"The president does not authority."  Sure. That is where leadership qualities matter. 

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand


@CarlosDS wrote:

The judge is wrong, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. A similar ruling happened in Michigan and the Appeals Court overruled it. I wonder if the fact the judge was appointed by Trump has anything to do with his ruling. 


Supreme Court (and lower court) justices can lean liberal or conservative in their opinions.  Picking a Supreme Court justice is one of the most important duties of a President.  It has long lasting implications so Presidents tend to pick justices that lean toward their way of thinking.  FDR was famous for trying to "pack the court" and he eventually succeeded.

https://www.history.com/news/franklin-roosevelt-tried-packing-supreme-court

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand


@ECEPROF wrote:

"the Constitution is not a suicide pact."

+1.

@Mustang

I hope and pray that this guy (the judge) does not get the virus and dies in two days after that. Who knows? It could happen to anyone.

 


Is that sarcasm I hear?

@CarlosDS 

If I remember correctly if a different federal justice in a different district (or state) made a different decision then the case will move up the ladder to the next higher court.  Until then the states in one federal district have different rules than the states in the second federal district.  In the past the higher level court would pick up that case fairly quickly to correct that problem.  Things like that usually end up at the Supreme Court.

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Re: @Chang: Good news from Thailand

I misstated the Michigan case, it was in state courts. 

I think this wrongheaded verdict will be overruled in appeal. We will see.    

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