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Frequent Contributor

Re: Catholic Church and PPP Loans


@anatfizz wrote:

Another recipient that really irks me is the PPP loan that went to the Ayn Rand organization.  Loved this letter to the LA Times today that asked:   "Which part of championing unbridled private sector capitalism, disdain for the public sector, and the supremacy of self-reliance do you think the Ayn Rand Institute found most convenient when applying for a PPP loan?"


When a thief steals from you, there is no hypocrisy in getting back what you can.

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Re: Catholic Church and PPP Loans


@chang wrote:

@anatfizz wrote:

Another recipient that really irks me is the PPP loan that went to the Ayn Rand organization.  Loved this letter to the LA Times today that asked:   "Which part of championing unbridled private sector capitalism, disdain for the public sector, and the supremacy of self-reliance do you think the Ayn Rand Institute found most convenient when applying for a PPP loan?"


When a thief steals from you, there is no hypocrisy in getting back what you can.


"The Remissness of our People in Paying Taxes is highly blameable; the Unwillingness to pay them is still more so... All Property, indeed, except the Savage's temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

Benjamin Franklin to Robert Morris  25th of December 1783

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Re: Catholic Church and PPP Loans

Who stole what from whom? Do I need my Grievance Lingo Decoder Ring?

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Frequent Contributor

Re: Catholic Church and PPP Loans


@rumples wrote:

@chang wrote:

@anatfizz wrote:

Another recipient that really irks me is the PPP loan that went to the Ayn Rand organization.  Loved this letter to the LA Times today that asked:   "Which part of championing unbridled private sector capitalism, disdain for the public sector, and the supremacy of self-reliance do you think the Ayn Rand Institute found most convenient when applying for a PPP loan?"


When a thief steals from you, there is no hypocrisy in getting back what you can.


"The Remissness of our People in Paying Taxes is highly blameable; the Unwillingness to pay them is still more so... All Property, indeed, except the Savage's temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

Benjamin Franklin to Robert Morris  25th of December 1783


Nice! I would further submit that the actual hypocrisy stems from enjoying the resources and benefits provided, then finding a rationale to mischaracterize contributing back into the system. 

 

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Re: Catholic Church and PPP Loans

Exactly.  The Founders knew that.  They were scared to death of what they called "levelers" and what are now socialists.  There are no perfect taxes:

"...it is essential that you should practically bear in mind that towards the payment of debts there must be revenue; that to have revenue there must be taxes; that no taxes can be devised which are not more or less inconvenient and unpleasant..."

George Washington's Farewell Address 1796

https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=false&doc=15&page=transcript

(And despite my great niece telling her first grade class that I knew George Washington, I did not.)

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Re: Catholic Church and PPP Loans

Why should employees of a church not receive PPP? The tax exempt status of churches is a completely different issue. The loans are made to the church as with any business, to ease the Gov. burden of distributing the PPP to millions of people individually. 

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Re: Catholic Church and PPP Loans


@archer wrote:

Why should employees of a church not receive PPP? The tax exempt status of churches is a completely different issue. The loans are made to the church as with any business, to ease the Gov. burden of distributing the PPP to millions of people individually. 


If they give me a couple billion, I'll help ease the burden too. Trust me. I'll make sure the recipients are worthy.

In all fairness, I don't think the "tax-exempt status" is the issue directly. It is the idea that everyone's tax contributions are going to prop up a specific religious institution or any religion at all. The appearance that "the state" is endorsing a religious institution. It is the point of the separation clause.

 

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Re: Catholic Church and PPP Loans

Grover Norquist is presently on CNBC doing his best to spin why his foundation has taken government cheese! His argument is that the government shut down the economy, so it is OK. This implies his foundation was somehow shut down by the government. What? Can anyone explain how his foundation was shut down in any way by the federal government? Grover certainly cannot.


In the past Grover has struggled to explain how his favorite leaders had raised taxes repeatedly, and how his favorite leaders have driven huge deficits with their tax policies. 

His explanations are of the straw man variety: Government hurt business, so it is acceptable. The PPP is designed to save jobs, so it is good. He then tries to suggest that this applies to his foundation taking PPP money, without connecting the dots. Dude is shameless.

Grover is the poster child for strange bedfellows. LOL - best headline ever! 

 

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