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113 Replies
archer
Participant ○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows

In the last paragraph Ivascyn seems to think his fund is able to "maintain flexibility". This has been the main concern among many of us due to the funds size. 

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outandabout
Participant ○○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows


@archer wrote:

In the last paragraph Ivascyn seems to think his fund is able to "maintain flexibility". This has been the main concern among many of us due to the funds size. 


I hold my max of this fund archer, and have the same concerns. I wonder what PIMCO could be used as an alternative?

 

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archer
Participant ○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows

@outandabout PDVAX is similar with its holdings securitized/corp/gov/other, and much smaller, but it has worse SD and Sharpe. Any reason to look to Pimco? They have renowned managers, but they are only as good as their funds, and there are many other good ones from other houses. Name has always been pretty low on my criteria.

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outandabout
Participant ○○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows


@archer wrote:

@outandabout  Any reason to look to Pimco? .

Fair question, archer. I've held PIMIX for a decade or so and haven't wished to find another fixed income fund with the degree of safety that this fund has provided. Ideas are always welcomed.

I did look at Loomis Sayles' offering NEZYX, but over the past five years it has failed to accomplish PIMIX's record.


 

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markroyer56
Follower ○○○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows

Curious if anyone has seen Ivascyn or anyone else at PIMCO address their steep fee increases of late.   I recall not that long ago when they charged around 50 cents for PIMIX.  It has more than doubled.  

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Highlighted
yogibearbull
Valued Contributor

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows


@markroyer56 wrote:

Curious if anyone has seen Ivascyn or anyone else at PIMCO address their steep fee increases of late.   I recall not that long ago when they charged around 50 cents for PIMIX.  It has more than doubled.  


ER did go up but not by that much. But M* started including leverage costs [0.55%] in the ER. Summary Prospectus

YBB
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wayoutwest
Participant ○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows

The Q&A did mention emerging markets but failed to address the Argentina investments. Overall, though, I found the piece of value to glimpse the managers' thinking. Thanks for posting the link.

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dtconroe
Contributor ○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows


@archer wrote:

In the last paragraph Ivascyn seems to think his fund is able to "maintain flexibility". This has been the main concern among many of us due to the funds size. 


When I see Portfolio Managers urge investors to be "patient", that usually means their investment decisions have not done well so far, so investors should hang in there in hopes that those investment decisions will eventually do well.  I want to believe PIMIX is able to "maintain flexibility", but over the past 2 years, I have not seen any flexibility.  It just appears to me that they have positioned this $130 billion fund to be set for the market as they predict it will be, but at least in the last 2 years, I see little evidence that they are doing that well.  For almost the entire 2018 year, it was a negative TR performer, and only managed to eek out a tiny fractional positive year with a last minute bump.  2019 has been better, but in the second half of the year it has been very erratic.  When you look at the last 2 years TR for PIMIX, you would have done better with a very conservative nontraditional bond fund.  Will the next 2 years revert back to its performance history before 2018?--possibly but I doubt it is because of any "flexibility", but more likely because they guess right on how to put that $130 billion to work, not because they can adjust this monstrous AUM quickly if they guess wrong, or mistime their investments.

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outandabout
Participant ○○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows

I guess the question is then, where do I get the yield from a fixed income fund with a plus return over the past ten years?

> 3mo= .90, 12mo=7.14,  3yr=5.4,  5yr=5.21, 10yr= 8.81.

I fully agree PIMIX may be running out of steam, but who has done better over the same decade?

 

ElLobo
Participant ○○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows

As a relative PIMCO newbi (PCI), I have two questions.  One, does PIMCO offer a leveraged  CEF version of PIMIX?  Two, how does the underlying unleveraged PCI holdings compare to PIMIX holdings?

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yogibearbull
Valued Contributor

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows


@ElLobo wrote:

As a relative PIMCO newbi (PCI), I have two questions.  One, does PIMCO offer a leveraged  CEF version of PIMIX?  Two, how does the underlying unleveraged PCI holdings compare to PIMIX holdings?


PCI, PDI represent best ideas from PIMIX, all include Ivascyn + Murata..

YBB
outandabout
Participant ○○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows


@yogibearbull wrote:

@ElLobo wrote:

As a relative PIMCO newbi (PCI), I have two questions.  One, does PIMCO offer a leveraged  CEF version of PIMIX?  Two, how does the underlying unleveraged PCI holdings compare to PIMIX holdings?


PCI, PDI represent best ideas from PIMIX, all include Ivascyn + Murata..


Aren't both PCI and PDI at premium? If so, now may not be the time to roll out of PIMIX and into PCI and PDI.

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dtconroe
Contributor ○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows


@outandabout wrote:

I guess the question is then, where do I get the yield from a fixed income fund with a plus return over the past ten years?

> 3mo= .90, 12mo=7.14,  3yr=5.4,  5yr=5.21, 10yr= 8.81.

I fully agree PIMIX may be running out of steam, but who has done better over the same decade?

 


During the first 4 years, of the PIMIX 10 year total return period, it earned almost 20% a year in 3 of those years, as a small nonagency mortgage fund, able to scoop up oversold mortgages, from the 2008 financial crisis.  Those 20% total return years, will start dropping off its 10 year performance record, starting in 2020, and almost assuredly see its 10 total return performance declining significantly.  I don't know of anyone who thinks that the existing $130billion PIMIX fund will ever make 20% TR in the forseeable future.  10 year TR performance has no relevance in my investing decisions, especially in a fund like PIMIX that has very little resemblance, to what it was like in its initial years of existence.  I do like comparative performance analysis of bond oefs for the past 3 years, as I believe it reflects how well bond oefs are adjusting to recent changing market conditions.  With all of my concerns about PIMIX, and what I consider negative changes in the past 3 years, I still think it is a good fund, just not as good as it use to be, and going in a direction that raises a lot of concerns for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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PaulR888
Participant ○○○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows


@markroyer56 wrote:

Curious if anyone has seen Ivascyn or anyone else at PIMCO address their steep fee increases of late.   I recall not that long ago when they charged around 50 cents for PIMIX.  It has more than doubled.  


Extract below from their website.  Extra fee does not go to Pimco.  

 

Effective as of 07/31/2019
Gross Expense Ratio1.05%
 
Adjusted Expense Ratio0.50%
The Adjusted Expense Ratio excludes certain investment expenses, such as interest expense from borrowings and repurchase agreements and dividend expense from investments on short sales, incurred directly by the Fund or indirectly through the Fund’s investments in underlying PIMCO Funds (if applicable), none of which are paid to PIMCO.
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FD1001
Valued Contributor

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows


@PaulR888 wrote:

@markroyer56 wrote:

Curious if anyone has seen Ivascyn or anyone else at PIMCO address their steep fee increases of late.   I recall not that long ago when they charged around 50 cents for PIMIX.  It has more than doubled.  


Extract below from their website.  Extra fee does not go to Pimco.  

 

Effective as of 07/31/2019
Gross Expense Ratio1.05%
 
Adjusted Expense Ratio0.50%
The Adjusted Expense Ratio excludes certain investment expenses, such as interest expense from borrowings and repurchase agreements and dividend expense from investments on short sales, incurred directly by the Fund or indirectly through the Fund’s investments in underlying PIMCO Funds (if applicable), none of which are paid to PIMCO.

Correct but you still pay for it which means annual performance will be lower by all expenses equal to 1.05% while JMSIX ER is only 0.4%.  Basically PIMIX has to deliver 0.65% more every year.

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cegibbs
Participant ○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows

Sold PIMIX about five years ago because I concluded that it was fundamentally more important to understand exactly what I own and how the firm/PM invest rather than the notion of getting good returns from a fund that I didn’t fully understand and firm that uses a lot of esoteric ways to achieve returns.   Glad I sold it.   There isn’t a single person on these forums who understands how PIMIX invests, although they may claim they do.  I just fell back to following one of my basic investing principles which is understand what you own and why you own it.   Investors would probably be better off buying a good solid bond fund that they understand from a top notch bond shop like Baird for example and then taking risk on the equity side.  I’m not saying the folks at PIMCO don’t know what they are doing because they clearly do.  What I am saying is no one really understands what they do, particularly me, and I refuse to invest with firms and strategies that I don’t fully understand.  KISS is a great investing strategy.  Remember Warren Buffett advising Becky Quick from CNBC that she should invest 90% S&P500 index and 10% Short-term US Government bonds and stick with that portfolio.  I can’t argue with that approach even though I don’t follow it myself.  Will say that I have often given thought to going with Buffett’s advice but maybe in a slightly more conservative manner such as 70% S&P500 index.

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3M
Explorer ○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows

Thanks for posting the link to this update.  I am puzzled by some of their comments, but then I remind myself that they are managing billions of dollars of mostly bonds and will tend to be partial in that area.  Interesting comments about why they like mortgages so much and since few individual investors can tap into that market, this is why I'm following PIMCO.

That said, they are clearly concerned and made plenty of hints along those lines.  As most readers should understand our Fed as well as other central banks have taken proactive steps lately and there is some room still for a soft landing.

However, notice that they are emphasizing liquidity.  I believe this should be taken to heart by all interested individuals.  In other words, this is time to be cautious.

The 10 year treasury is currently yielding 1.94%.  That's a dramatic rise from just a few months ago, when we were looking at 1.5%.   Meanwhile, the 90 day has fallen from over 2% to 1.56%.  So, yield curve is no longer inverted;  Time for a small celebration.   Also, the ICE HY Options spread has fallen to just under 4%.  So, the markets are starting to looking fairly positive, but that also means going forward there is no reason to expect big rewards either. 

So, yes; it's a good time for a long period of patience.....

 

 

outandabout
Participant ○○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows

If one still requires the income that PIMIX provides could additional $$$$ be placed in VG's High-Yield Corp(VWEHX) with the same degree of safety?

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archer
Participant ○

Re: PIMIX Income Fund Update: Taking a Patient Approach as Growth Slows

@outandabout I wouldn't count on it: Link

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