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Frequent Contributor

Re: What should M* do now? [M* Product Competition]

@MichaelAustin , while it seems that many features of old free or Premium M* have migrated to M* Direct, M* Advisor Workstations and M* Office for financial professionals and advisors, those are simply not for retail. For example, a web search shows that M* Direct pricing is as follows:

"What is the cost of Morningstar Direct?

Pricing for Morningstar Direct is based on the number of licenses purchased. For clients in the United States, we generally charge an annual fee of $17,500 for the first user, $11,000 for the second user, and $9,500 for each additional user."
 
I doubt any free or Premium M* users would upgrade to those kind of prices/services. But unmistakably, M* free and Premium services have been downgraded/dumbed-down.
 
 
"Morningstar Direct's primary competitors are Bloomberg, eVestment Alliance, FactSet Research System’s Cognity and SPAR, Strategic Insight’s Simfund, and Thomson Reuters’ Eikon."
 
"Competitors for Morningstar Advisor Workstation include AdvisoryWorld (LPL Financial), YCharts, ASI, Kwanti, and Financial Express outside of the U.S. Occasionally, broker/dealers also decide to build their own internal tools and attempt to bring their advisors’ practice management tools in-house."
 
"Primary competitors to Morningstar Office Cloud include Black Diamond, Envestnet’s Tamarac, Orion Advisor Services, and Advyzon."
 
"Morningstar.com [Edit: free and Premium] primarily competes with trading platforms that concurrently offer research and investing advice, such as Fidelity, Schwab, TD Ameritrade, and eTrade. Research sites, such as The Motley Fool, Seeking Alpha, and Zacks Investment Research, also compete with us for paid membership. In addition, free or “freemium” websites such as Yahoo Finance, Dow Jones/Marketwatch, The Wall Street Journal, Kiplinger, and TheStreet.com all compete for the advertising dollars of entities wishing to reach an engaged audience of investors."
 
YBB
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Contributor ○○○

Re: What should M* do now? [M* Product Competition]

Along the lines of commercial use of the M* website mentioned, I wonder how the hundreds of thousands user portfolios are mined for saleable data? I have never read a user agreement.

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Follower ○○

Re: What should M* do now?

Having the ability to quickly compare mutual fund and ETF returns including after tax returns was a clear advantage for M* versus other research sites.   The new site still has a few useful tools but other sites including Fidelity and U.S. News offer essentially the same information at no cost.  While the gold, silver, and bronze rankings do provide additional guidance, the usefulness of M* is now so diminished it is difficult to envision why any of its premium users would continue paying when the true power tools of the former M* site are no longer available.  From the outside, this appears to have been a cost cutting measure with the hope that membership rates would not decline too much and thus allow profits to improve at M*.  Only they will know if this works, but as the site is no longer a true premium site, I will cancel my subscription.

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Follower ○○○

Re: What should M* do now?

I have been a subscriber to the M* premium for a long time , about 3 decades.

I am totally disappointed, sad, angry and simply put disgusted with the new format.

Nothing is right.I am not sure what the management has in mind. I sometimes think THEY DO NOT CARE FOR the premium members.I think this is beyond repair.

I hope they wake up sooner than later and fix this mess.

Very sad state of affairs.

GBK

 

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Follower ○○

Re: What should M* do now?

I have been using https://www.koyfin.com  now for a little while.  It is completely free and it is VERY powerful, once you figure out where everything is.  It is actually fun discovering all the hidden places.  It was designed to be equal or better than the Bloomberg terminals so famous for great information.   Try it, have a little patience, then SPREAD THE WORD!   

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Frequent Contributor

Re: What should M* do now?


@buzz339 wrote:

I have been using https://www.koyfin.com  now for a little while.  It is completely free and it is VERY powerful, once you figure out where everything is.  It is actually fun discovering all the hidden places.  It was designed to be equal or better than the Bloomberg terminals so famous for great information.   Try it, have a little patience, then SPREAD THE WORD!   


Thanks for the recommendation.  I just set up an account at Koyfin and added the CEFs, mutual funds, and stocks that most interest me.  It looks to be a very useful site.

One issue appears to be price vs. total return.  For example, the YTD performance shown for PIMIX is shown as 2.62%, which is wrong; the actual total return is 5.83% according to Pimco.  On the other hand, the YTD performance shown for PCI is 20%, which is the correct total return.

What am I missing?  Have I failed to configure Koyfin correctly?

TIA for any insight.

Norbert

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Frequent Contributor

Re: What should M* do now?

Can you set up portfolios on Koyfin? One of the things that has been helpful at Morningstar is setting up portfolios, to get asset allocations, track potential changes, etc.

Hoping to find this option (portfolios) at another site to REPLACE Morningstar.

Win
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Employee
Employee

Re: What should M* do now?


@DRIPInvestor wrote:

M* please bring back the ability to type in a ticker and quickly bring up the actual stock, fund etc.  I don't need to see other closely related companies, I simply want to see the company that relates directly to the ticker.  Good Grief!


DRIPInvestor, when you search for a security and a match is found clicking the security name will take you directly to the quote page. We'll release an update in the next few days so that if you click enter/return it'll take you to the top choice as well versus the search page that currently comes up.

Thanks,

darrin

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Employee
Employee

Re: What should M* do now?


@Win1177 wrote:

I am repeatedly signed out, multiple times, to the point that it now makes it nearly impossible to update my portfolio in “Portfolio Manager”. When I switch from one view to the next, the site will sign me out so frequently that it triples the time to update portfolios.

Win1177, we just finished testing a fix for the issue where opening portfolio manager in a new window (or via a bookmark) showed you as logged out. That fix will go live in the next couple days and should clear up this issue for you.

Thank you,

darrin

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Employee
Employee

Re: What should M* do now?


@MichaelAustin wrote:

...the "Tax" tab which showed pre and post-tax returns (tax efficiency) or both Mutual Funds and ETFs has been eliminated.   

Beyond eliminating the tax tab, MS has degraded the Performance and Risk Tools as well. In the old site, The Performance, and Risk, (and Tax) pages allowed a user to input, select and compare alternate investments.

We've updated the morningstar.com site, adding some features and trimming off some less commonly used ones like the pre- and post-tax return data and data table comparison feature on the quote page. For comparing securities we continue to have a compare feature under the Interactive Chart with the Add Comparison box. I’ll raise an enhancement request on your behalf to request adding back the more detailed return data and the comparison feature.

Thanks, MichaelAustin.

darrin

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Follower ○○

Re: What should M* do now?

Thanks Darrin for the update and note below

We've updated the morningstar.com site, adding some features and trimming
off some less commonly used ones like the pre- and post-tax return data and
data table comparison feature on the quote page. For comparing securities
we continue to have a compare feature under the Interactive Chart with the
Add Comparison box. I’ll raise an enhancement request on your behalf to
request adding back the more detailed return data and the comparison
feature.


>From my perspective, the "compare" feature you reference using the
interactive chart does not provide the key compounded returns contained in
the table based formats that was offered under your Performance and Tax
tabs, nor the annual yr by yr performance for 15 yrs.. See examples
below.

Here is my recommendation: Just bring back the tables, table views, and
table functionality that you had for over a decade under your old
"Performance" and "Tax" Tabs.

And if you are worried they are too "complicated" or "confusing" for
some, just offer "table views" as an option for users who want them --
exactly as they were under the Performance, and the Tax tabs.


See below

*Old Performance Trailing Total Returns Table View -- please bring it back!*

[image: image.png]

Also under performance tab, I could also see a table (not shown here)
showing individual and comparative fund performance on a year by year basis
for 10-15 years. The ability to see and compare Annual Fund Performance
was very useful in determining the relative stability of funds during
periods of stress, e.g. 2008 market crash. Please bring that table back
too. Thanks

*Tax Analysis Table View* -- Look how useful this is! How can you get
rid of it? It's already built and working. Just offer a way to view it!

The Tax Tab Tables worked great in the prior Table format, showing *Pretax
Return * info from 1 month through, 1, 3, 5, 10, 15 yrs through Inception
plus *Tax-adjusted Return* and *Tax Cost Ratio*, not to mention *Potential
Capital Gains* exposure.

[image: image.png]


Thanks in advance for any help you can offer to bring back these most
useful tools -- no need to redesign or
reformat. Exactly as they were is fine.

M
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Community Manager Community Manager
Community Manager

Re: What should M* do now? [M* Product Competition]


@Gary1952 wrote:

Along the lines of commercial use of the M* website mentioned, I wonder how the hundreds of thousands user portfolios are mined for saleable data? I have never read a user agreement.


https://www.morningstar.com/user-agreement

https://www.morningstar.com/privacy-policy

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Follower ○○○

Re: What should M* do now?

Agree 100%. Old site great (when working correctly).  New site unusable and useless even if usable.

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Follower ○○

Re: What should M* do now?

Don't fire whoever created this new Morning* site.  Just put him in a room each day by himself with a tv that only plays soap operas as punishment.

This new Morning* site is usless to me.  Better to just view Yahoo Financials or read the funny papers. I'm totally disgisted with it.

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Follower ○○○

Re: What should M* do now?

Based on what I've seen I believe this analysis is correct.  All those missing pieces that made it so easy to do research will most probably be available only in a more expensive paid subscription like Morningstar Direct Cloud.

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Follower ○○○

Re: What should M* do now?

If old M* not returned by August I'm pulling the plug on my paid subscription. Don't really need it anymore!

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Follower ○○

Re: What should M* do now?

I too HATE the new format, which has basically deleted a lot of useful information - especially the "All fund analyst reports" list, which brought tons of relevant data to your fingertips with just a few clicks. And it replaced these lost features with.....nothing. Honestly, if there isn't a rapid and substantial improvement to the format - or (better) reversion to the earlier one - I can see little reason to maintain a Premier membership. 

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Explorer ○○

Re: What should M* do now?

Leaving MS when time to renew- there is little value left. I will continue to explore for my needs elsewhere. I'm hoping Vanguard/WSJ will start providing some tools for port management.

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Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: What should M* do now?

This reminds me of my experience of being in Executive Management, replacing old software systems, with new and improved alternatives.  The old systems had a huge number of complaints, were the object of angry and ongoing criticisms, and management finally yielded and solicited bids from multiple software vendors to replace the old system.  The software bids and presentations looked great, so we made our best choice and went through our best effort to make the change.  Employees never liked the new system, always asked to have the old system back that was so terrible in the past.  My experience is that no system is perfect, no system is without flaws, and it is virtually impossible to win in these conversions.  

I am no longer a premium user, but I do use the free components of the M* system, with all of its imperfections, as the best overall system I know about.  I think if there was a better overall system available, then places like Schwab and Fidelity would be using those alternative options instead of M* to provide data to evaluate and market their funds for selling purposes.  With regard to the Discussion Forum, a few people have moved on to the Fidelity forum, but as far as I know, the volume of defectors from M* to Fidelity is not much of a concern to M*.

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Contributor ○○○

Re: What should M* do now?

Why have a system that does not function correctly? I have used Portfolio Manager for 20 years. Portfolio Manager has bugs that are 180 degrees out of the real world. An example: funds that use daily interest accrual are know to M*. The number of days a fund is owned is known to Portfolio Manager. But the entire monthly dividend is credited and creates an error if a fund is owned less than a full month. It is a math issue.There are other bugs as well.

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