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@Gary1952 wrote:

It ridiculous to think we have inferior health care to cause more deaths. There is something else going on with the numbers or the way US citizens react to the virus. If some minorities are hit harder by the virus it is safe to assume they die more frequently. I am curious how many die at home or at least not in a hospital? Are all deaths reported the same no matter where it occurs? There are too many things to not trust about reporting. 


@bilperk wrote:

@Gary1952 wrote:

Europe and the USA have both tested roughly the same (33m US and 30m Europe). With a smaller population we have tested at a higher rate so therefore turn up more positives. I have been in about 9 states the last few weeks and see people everywhere not taking it seriously waring masks and distancing. Clerks and servers are wearing them its patron that don't.


Europe has 2.25 times our population, less known cases, and the US has 52% more deaths as of yesterday.  Death rate is the ultimate measure of success in this pandemic.


 


Sorry Gary, but rationalizations won't make it go away.  I never said anything about inferior health care.  And inferring that we are somehow purposely inflating our death count is without any basis as their counts are coming in independently from every nook and cranny in this Country.    In order to have less than half the population and 52% more deaths, there has to be something we didn't do and aren't doing as well as we should.  That something may be by the government or just by the people themselves.  You know, good old American exceptionalism.

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@racqueteer wrote:

Gabe, market futures are now up; are we still to anticipate a "humdinger" of a week?  Is that now a humdinger up rather than down?  Or is it just going to be partly hazy with volatility?  I need your update!!!

btw, Gabe, this isn't intended as a putdown or criticism.  You seem to have a sense of humor, and YOU set the tone for this thread.  Just trying to lighten the mood...


I appreciate your note.  

Futures are limited to the extent that financial fundamentals is taking a back seat to the virus count.  So....the last half hour is gaining more prominence in my strategy.  

Gabe

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@Gary1952 wrote:

The US death rate matches that of the world according to the Johns Hopkins website.


@bilperk wrote:

@Gary1952 wrote:

Europe and the USA have both tested roughly the same (33m US and 30m Europe). With a smaller population we have tested at a higher rate so therefore turn up more positives. I have been in about 9 states the last few weeks and see people everywhere not taking it seriously waring masks and distancing. Clerks and servers are wearing them its patron that don't.


Europe has 2.25 times our population, less known cases, and the US has 52% more deaths as of yesterday.  Death rate is the ultimate measure of success in this pandemic.


 


You are the one who named Europe.  Here are the figures as of yesterday:  EU 740 M population, 2,411,069 cases, 191,037 deaths.  US: 330M population 2,548,996 cases, 125,804 deaths.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases

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@DrVenture wrote:

I believe that some strong arguments could be made that putting a high value on "personal liberty" or "expression" may not be conducive to success as a society over the long haul. "Live free or Die" may be the exact opposite of reality, though it makes a nice t-shirt slogan. There are times when personal freedoms may be a well appreciated luxury...and times when not working together towards a common goal, challenge or enemy may be a big deficit. 

The nations that have done a good job dealing with COVID-19 seem to be those that value long-tern goals over short-term pleasures. And those that value group success over individual "liberties". Imagine a football team where each member was only interested in his individual goals. Gonna get stomped by the team that plays well together.

As to the U.S. healthcare system, it seems to be great if not stressed and as long as you have great insurance. But, maybe not so great as a tool to maintain overall great public health. Even the vaunted CDC has come under intense scrutiny as of late. Kicking science to the curb, when it is no longer convenient is not helping any. The U.S. seems to suffer from intense distrust of expertise. Hard to see that as a good thing. When politicians are being trusted to build bridges vs engineers...


It seems we are saying the same thing,  yet making clear different points. I like the part about longterm goals, rather than short term pleasures.

I am not faulting the USA, nor are you, just making a statement about an incontestable truth, we place a high value on personal liberty. 

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@51hh wrote:

@CarlosDS : Excellent, thanks. 

Do you report only bad numbers?  Should we hold onto something when you report it; e.g., masks or sanitizers?


@51hh  I dropped all the things I was holding.  Are we supposed to be touching any of these things that we were holding on to?

Capital
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I never said you mentioned inferior healthcare. If our death rate matches the world rate then nothing is wrong. You are only comparing the USA death rate with a part of the world. It has already been proven that death counts are being reported inconsistently. FatKat I think has part the answer. I am not rationalizing anything. Just using published numbers. I get some here don't like the US numbers. Every single topic in this country has become politicized so it is very difficult to believe much at all. All Lives Matter.

BTW we are taking this thread off-topic. I won't any longer. Please explain your approach to VWEAX again.


@bilperk wrote:

@Gary1952 wrote:

It ridiculous to think we have inferior health care to cause more deaths. There is something else going on with the numbers or the way US citizens react to the virus. If some minorities are hit harder by the virus it is safe to assume they die more frequently. I am curious how many die at home or at least not in a hospital? Are all deaths reported the same no matter where it occurs? There are too many things to not trust about reporting. 


@bilperk wrote:

@Gary1952 wrote:

Europe and the USA have both tested roughly the same (33m US and 30m Europe). With a smaller population we have tested at a higher rate so therefore turn up more positives. I have been in about 9 states the last few weeks and see people everywhere not taking it seriously waring masks and distancing. Clerks and servers are wearing them its patron that don't.


Europe has 2.25 times our population, less known cases, and the US has 52% more deaths as of yesterday.  Death rate is the ultimate measure of success in this pandemic.


 


Sorry Gary, but rationalizations won't make it go away.  I never said anything about inferior health care.  And inferring that we are somehow purposely inflating our death count is without any basis as their counts are coming in independently from every nook and cranny in this Country.    In order to have less than half the population and 52% more deaths, there has to be something we didn't do and aren't doing as well as we should.  That something may be by the government or just by the people themselves.  You know, good old American exceptionalism.


 

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@Gary1952 wrote:

I never said you mentioned inferior healthcare. If our death rate matches the world rate then nothing is wrong. You are only comparing the USA death rate with a part of the world. It has already been proven that death counts are being reported inconsistently. FatKat I think has part the answer. I am not rationalizing anything. Just using published numbers. I get some here don't like the US numbers. Every single topic in this country has become politicized so it is very difficult to believe much at all. All Lives Matter.

BTW we are taking this thread off-topic. I won't any longer. Please explain your approach to VWEAX again.


@bilperk wrote:

@Gary1952 wrote:

It ridiculous to think we have inferior health care to cause more deaths. There is something else going on with the numbers or the way US citizens react to the virus. If some minorities are hit harder by the virus it is safe to assume they die more frequently. I am curious how many die at home or at least not in a hospital? Are all deaths reported the same no matter where it occurs? There are too many things to not trust about reporting. 


@bilperk wrote:

@Gary1952 wrote:

Europe and the USA have both tested roughly the same (33m US and 30m Europe). With a smaller population we have tested at a higher rate so therefore turn up more positives. I have been in about 9 states the last few weeks and see people everywhere not taking it seriously waring masks and distancing. Clerks and servers are wearing them its patron that don't.


Europe has 2.25 times our population, less known cases, and the US has 52% more deaths as of yesterday.  Death rate is the ultimate measure of success in this pandemic.


 


Sorry Gary, but rationalizations won't make it go away.  I never said anything about inferior health care.  And inferring that we are somehow purposely inflating our death count is without any basis as their counts are coming in independently from every nook and cranny in this Country.    In order to have less than half the population and 52% more deaths, there has to be something we didn't do and aren't doing as well as we should.  That something may be by the government or just by the people themselves.  You know, good old American exceptionalism.


 


@Gary1952 ,

You took it off topic when you wrote "Europe and the USA have both tested roughly the same (33m US and 30m Europe). With a smaller population we have tested at a higher rate so therefore turn up more positives."

Europe is the closest people to us in terms of economy and government, so using them as a comparison is applicable.  we don't compare well.

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Bill wrote:

"You took it off topic when you wrote "Europe and the USA have both tested roughly the same (33m US and 30m Europe). With a smaller population we have tested at a higher rate so therefore turn up more positives."

Europe is the closest people to us in terms of economy and government, so using them as a comparison is applicable.  we don't compare well."

-----

Bills,

The US has significantly lower per capita Covid-19 deaths than Belgium, France, Sweden, the UK, Spain, and Italy. Germany is looking better and Holland slightly better.

Several smaller countries slammed their door shut early on. I've been in one of them for four months. That's mainly why Europe as a whole looks better than the US.

The drivers of the death statistics are complex, to put it mildly. France, Italy, and Spain are Latin countries that enjoy personal contact; Germany is not. Germany has good discipline and tends towards conformist behavior; the US is not. Etc etc.

Presently were seeing a surge of cases in hot states where people use air conditioning and go indoors. Problem! Europe has few inside air conditioned spaces. 

You get the picture. It's very difficult to know which administrations deserve a gold star. There are too many variables.

Let's hope a vaccine is available soon. Meanwhile, stay away from places with poor ventilation and wear a mask if you must be with others inside. Outside it probably doesn't matter.

I approve of playing shuffleboard.

N.

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Comparing to Germany alone, an apples-to-apples comparison for the most part, we have 4x the deaths on a population adjusted basis. It may be worth understanding why. 

Once you add in all the third and second world countries, we come out average. Thank goodness for the screw-ups, at the back of the class, for bringing down the curve!

Being sensitive to criticism always struck me as counterproductive towards recognizing weakness and addressing it. Perhaps America can be compared to it's iconic muscle cars of the sixties, massive engines, but poor brakes and steering. Recognizing their inherent weaknesses has led to much better performance vehicles today. That is not a bad thing. 

Plus, a man should be allowed to speak freely of his own family, correct? And a citizen should be free to speak honestly of it's nation. Improvement is rarely the byproduct of complacency.

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@Capital wrote:

@51hh wrote:

@CarlosDS : Excellent, thanks. 

Do you report only bad numbers?  Should we hold onto something when you report it; e.g., masks or sanitizers?


@51hh  I dropped all the things I was holding.  Are we supposed to be touching any of these things that we were holding on to?

Dear Capital, 

Most definitely.  Those are PPEs for turbulent market recommended by Sage Gabe, umbrella and banister are the most important pair even if you lose your suspenders due to the strong market wind. 

Now just remember, in addition, to wear a stylish face mask and put your sanitizer in your left pocket and saved pennies in your right pocket (important not to mix the two!). 

You are all set for any types of market/virus weather. 

Stay safe and wealthy!

 


 

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@youth :  

Curious about your last-hour comment today?  As predicted?  :)  Thanks.

Stay safe and happy.


 

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@51hh wrote:

@youth :  

Curious about your last-hour comment today?  As predicted?  :)  Thanks.

Stay safe and happy.


 


Sorry......I am at a loss as to your question.  Please elucidate.  

Gabe

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Is today's market result (as you predicted); i.e., one step closer to the (DOW 15,000, S&P 2,000) you mentioned several times last Friday? 

In fact, missed your last-half-hour market perspectives for today, thank you.:) 

Oh, I forgot, you have comments only when the market is down?

Stay healthy.

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Riding this stock market feels more like riding in a rodeo than riding in a horse race. Just when you think your going down again you hit bottom and start back up again. That last buck of today felt kind of nice after all was said and done. No trading for me today. Just holding my cards. 

Capital
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@ECEPROF  - Just saw this come out. Gov. Lee has extended the State of Emergency

https://www.wsmv.com/governor-extends-state-of-emergency-until-at-least-august-29/article_8b35e7fc-b...

Capital
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@51hh wrote:

Is today's market result (as you predicted); i.e., one step closer to the (DOW 15,000, S&P 2,000) you mentioned several times last Friday? 

In fact, missed your last-hour market perspectives for today, thank you.:) 

Oh, I forgot, you have comments only when the market is down?

Stay healthy.


I did comment on the last half hour to Racqueteer re: its importance to my strategy on this thread.

Gabe

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@Capital wrote:

@ECEPROF  - Just saw this come out. Gov. Lee has extended the State of Emergency

https://www.wsmv.com/governor-extends-state-of-emergency-until-at-least-august-29/article_8b35e7fc-b...


Thanks for the info. The website is also back. If you have been following the numbers from the state health department website, you will notice something new today. The gray area means that the counting is incomplete. This gray area has been pushed back by a few days. That means that the counting in the past two weeks has not been completely correct. Perhaps, the cases will keep going up dramatically. Another proof is that my county count jumped by more than 50 in less than 24 hours. That raised alarm in my mind also a few hours earlier. The following link is the story from this morning when the state website was down.

Putnam has 153 active COVID-19 cases, nine at CRMC

In any case, what Gov. Lee is doing is the right thing to do. Probably, he is two weeks late but never late in this situation.

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@ECEPROF : TN, regardless of the data issues, is still in the low-count tier (about 40K cases) relatively, right?

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@51hh wrote:

@ECEPROF : TN, regardless of the data issues, is still in the low-count tier (about 40K cases) relatively, right?


Yes, close. But, our population is also low. So, you have to count the number of cases with the population count - like 100,000 (used by most people).

Screenshot_2020-06-29 Novel Coronavirus.png

Consider this. As of two days ago, based on our county population, the number of cases was 0.93% (it is slightly above 1% today), while in Orange county, CA (where a friend of mine moved from here to there a few years back), the number of cases is less tha 0.3%. So, I live in a secluded and sparse area where all of the folks are above 75 (excluding my son, his wife, and children). The distance between my house and my neighbors in more than 400 feet. We live in a 2-acre hilly plot. So, we will survive. But, go east about mile. Then, you have the problem.

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Understood, thanks @ECEPROF .

Stay safe and enjoy your family.:)

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