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M* podcast

The following snippet is taken from M* conversation between Christine Benz, Jeff Ptak and Jon Stein. Jon is a graduate of Harvard University and Columbia Business School and is a Chartered Financial Analyst.

Jon Stein: 'Free Trading Is Actually Going to Cost You'
The Betterment founder and CEO on evolving beyond robo-advice, client behavior during the recent market swoon, and deterring harmful trading activity.

https://www.morningstar.com/podcasts/the-long-view/60


Enjoy

 

 

Ptak: Maybe if we could widen out for a second. We've read stories about trading activity on other large brokerage platforms. Trading activities gone through the roof by many measures in recent months. And I guess on its face, it seems troubling. But my question for you is, do you think it can be healthy for investors to experiment with trading when they're young to sort of get it out of their system and maybe learn the hard lessons that will serve them well over the long haul?


Stein: I don't think that's crazy at all. I do think it's crazy to go and try and beat the market by trading stocks. I think that it's a bad idea. It is all but impossible, right? The chances that you do it are vanishingly small and have everything to do with luck and nothing to do with scale, in my opinion, and 99% of people will fail at doing that over time. And yet, you're right, people still do it. I did it. I mean, I studied economics at Harvard as an undergrad and I earned my CFA over time and was working in the industry and sort of had every reason… I'd read all the books about behavioral economics. I consider myself a lucky, privileged, well-educated person. And yet I stupidly went out and was like trading my own portfolio. Frankly, because that's what was available.


I think that the advisors were essentially inaccessible to me because I didn't have enough money for their minimums. And so, the obvious option was to self-direct into just manage my own funds. And working in the industry and opening accounts at maybe seven different broker/dealers, I saw that all of them were basically trying to get me to do the thing that was good for them, not the thing that was good for me. They all wanted me to trade more. And so, they put red and green on the home page, and they encourage you to trade--they give away information about which stocks you should buy, free content to encourage you to trade because that's how they drive revenue. And what that does is it reduces your money. Like, the more you trade, the less well you do. So, I don't think it's crazy to think that, you know, get it out of your system while you're young and you have less to lose; just don't do it with most of your money.

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Re: M* podcast

Interesting podcast!

Win
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@Win1177 wrote:

Interesting podcast!


Interesting indeed!  The podcast gave an excellent description of a modern robo-advisor service coupled with their own investment/brokerage business.  Actually, they don't seem to offer brokerage accounts, from which investors are able to buy and sell individual stocks, at least as far as I can tell!  From their description, Betterment Financial LLC is the modern day equivalent for having a Vanguard or Fido account, absent the ability to invest in individual stocks.

"Benz: Switching over to Betterment’s services. Let's start by talking about your original offering, Betterment Digital, a pure robo-advisor charging 25 basis points a year. What are the benefits for new advisors of choosing Betterment Digital over, say, a target-date fund for their IRA?

Stein: I like to think of Betterment as the next iteration of a target-date fund. Just imagine that target-date fund is now personalized to you instead of just being you and 5 million people who are going to retire within five or 10 years of you. And if your situation changes, it adapts to you, and it's tax optimized for you."

He then goes on to say:

"Stein: Well, the best thing for someone to do is just to transfer all their money to Betterment, and we make that really easy. So, you can use automated transfer systems. We link to all the major brokerages out there and we can automatically transfer that for you. We have a rollover concierge who can walk you through the process that makes it really, really easy. And it can be done all electronically in most cases. You can just do it yourself through the website, following the prompts if you don't want to call us up and talk to one of our advisors about how to do it. We help customers make plans. So, many of our customers are creating their plan on their own. Others are calling us, and we have a premium service. Still others are working with financial advisors on our Betterment for Advisors platform and that advisor is making the platform and doing the transfer of assets.

But ultimately, the answer is to just, yeah, move your money to us. Betterment works best when you consolidate on Betterment, because we're making you more on every dollar. And so, you ought to have all your money with us. If you're doing it somewhere else, frankly, you're not doing as well. And I think that, yes, you can aggregate when we show you, maybe you have some reason, you just can't move a certain asset type. We don't support every asset type yet. If you've got a single stock that you want to hold on to somewhere else. Sometimes we can transfer that in, but there may be some assets that we can't hold yet. And so, we'll aggregate that, and we'll show you a full picture. And of course, it takes some people time to get comfortable with a platform like Betterment, right? Maybe they want to try it out before they consolidate everything and go all in. That's a very common path. And so, for them, yeah, we have aggregation. We will show you your full financial picture at Betterment, things that you have with us and things held elsewhere. And that view is used to help us make recommendations about your accounts and your allocations and your contributions and all the advice that Betterment gives to our customers.

Benz: Your portfolios include exposure to plain-vanilla total-market ETFs, but they also incorporate fairly meaningful size and value tilts. I was running through some portfolios yesterday and one that I looked at included 60% of its U.S. equity position in a total market index and then another 40% in various value ETFs, large, mid and small. So, assuming that those tilts toward value have hurt performance relative to a total-market portfolio, have you had internal discussions about backing off of the tilts? And maybe you can walk us through sort of your process for reviewing and updating your firmwide portfolio strategies?"

Yup, another carnival schill schtick, Bentley!  Thanks for bringing Jon Stein and Betterment Financial LLC to the attention of retirees, especially on the Investing During Retirement forum.  Adds a lot to the collective knowledge of M* posters!  8-))

(I think I'll flag this thread to Ryan as inappropriate for this forum and your attempt to tout a commercial enterprise!  Might have been better posted on Off Topic, or Bogleheads!) @RyanM 

ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
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@ElLobo wrote:

@Win1177 wrote:

Interesting podcast!


 

Benz: Your portfolios include exposure to plain-vanilla total-market ETFs, but they also incorporate fairly meaningful size and value tilts. I was running through some portfolios yesterday and one that I looked at included 60% of its U.S. equity position in a total market index and then another 40% in various value ETFs, large, mid and small. So, assuming that those tilts toward value have hurt performance relative to a total-market portfolio, have you had internal discussions about backing off of the tilts? And maybe you can walk us through sort of your process for reviewing and updating your firmwide portfolio strategies?"

Yup, another carnival schill schtick, Bentley!  Thanks for bringing Jon Stein and Betterment Financial LLC to the attention of retirees, especially on the Investing During Retirement forum.  Adds a lot to the collective knowledge of M* posters!  8-))

(I think I'll flag this thread to Ryan as inappropriate for this forum and your attempt to tout a commercial enterprise!  Might have been better posted on Off Topic, or Bogleheads!) @RyanM 


 

 You do understand that this is a Robo strategy that tilts towards value ( dividend-paying companies ).  With fees of .25 for a company that can do it all for you is a bargain.

 If you think so poorly of the article complain to M* who posted it with Christine Benz participating.

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@ElLobo wrote:

(I think I'll flag this thread to Ryan as inappropriate for this forum and your attempt to tout a commercial enterprise!  Might have been better posted on Off Topic, or Bogleheads!) @RyanM 


I guess it would be a conflict of interest for Ryan to have to remove a M* article. :) 

 

 

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@Bentley wrote:

@ElLobo wrote:

@Win1177 wrote:

Interesting podcast!


 

Benz: Your portfolios include exposure to plain-vanilla total-market ETFs, but they also incorporate fairly meaningful size and value tilts. I was running through some portfolios yesterday and one that I looked at included 60% of its U.S. equity position in a total market index and then another 40% in various value ETFs, large, mid and small. So, assuming that those tilts toward value have hurt performance relative to a total-market portfolio, have you had internal discussions about backing off of the tilts? And maybe you can walk us through sort of your process for reviewing and updating your firmwide portfolio strategies?"

Yup, another carnival schill schtick, Bentley!  Thanks for bringing Jon Stein and Betterment Financial LLC to the attention of retirees, especially on the Investing During Retirement forum.  Adds a lot to the collective knowledge of M* posters!  8-))

(I think I'll flag this thread to Ryan as inappropriate for this forum and your attempt to tout a commercial enterprise!  Might have been better posted on Off Topic, or Bogleheads!) @RyanM 


 

 You do understand that this is a Robo strategy that tilts towards value ( dividend-paying companies ).  With fees of .25 for a company that can do it all for you is a bargain.

 If you think so poorly of the article complain to M* who posted it with Christine Benz participating.


I fully understand what it is and I have absolutely no problem with anyone using their service, for 25 or 40 basis points per year.  As I said, I thanked you for bringing this 'valuable' service to the attention of the retirees who post on the IDR forum, who are well past the accumulation phase of our lifetimes and are well into the decumulation phase!

My point is that IDR is the wrong forum to post it!  The only reason I could come up with is it's another of your typical t***l nonsense!

ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
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@CarlosDS wrote:

@ElLobo wrote:

(I think I'll flag this thread to Ryan as inappropriate for this forum and your attempt to tout a commercial enterprise!  Might have been better posted on Off Topic, or Bogleheads!) @RyanM 


I guess it would be a conflict of interest for Ryan to have to remove a M* article. :) 

 

 


Actually, it isn't appropriate for Ryan to have to remove a M* article, and he probably has absolutely no say so.  He be much junior to Christina Benz, the long time M* retirement guru.  My point is that the article itself isn't appropriate to discuss on THIS particular forum!

ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
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@CarlosDS wrote:

@ElLobo wrote:

(I think I'll flag this thread to Ryan as inappropriate for this forum and your attempt to tout a commercial enterprise!  Might have been better posted on Off Topic, or Bogleheads!) @RyanM 


I guess it would be a conflict of interest for Ryan to have to remove a M* article. :) 

 

 


LOL.  Maybe El missed that.

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We have not gotten to the point where discussion on any forum is limited to that type of forum.  That would be a moderator's nightmare.  Any investing subject will almost always contain some nexus with dividends and income.

However, I'm not a big fan of statements like " in my opinion,99% of people will fail at doing that over time."  99% seems a little precise for an opinion about what people may or may not fail at.

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@bilperk wrote:

@CarlosDS wrote:

@ElLobo wrote:

(I think I'll flag this thread to Ryan as inappropriate for this forum and your attempt to tout a commercial enterprise!  Might have been better posted on Off Topic, or Bogleheads!) @RyanM 


I guess it would be a conflict of interest for Ryan to have to remove a M* article. :) 

 

 


LOL.  Maybe El missed that.


I'm like Howard Cosell - Ifn I missed something, it wasn't worth remembering!  8-))

Flagging Ryan was only with respect to this particular posting by the t***l, not to the M* article itself, on this specific forum.  I never thought the article itself was trivial or inappropriate on the corporate M* site.  Certainly a lot of newbie investors, just starting out, could benefit by going to Betterment Financial LLC, rather than to Vanguard or Fido, as you and I did 2 decades ago, Bill.

ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
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Where better to post an M* produced podcast featuring a vetted low cost financial advisory service that has specialized portfolios to provide income for retirees?


Betterment has specialized portfolios for retirement income.

https://www.betterment.com/retirement-income/

 

"Stop questioning how much money you have to live on. Betterment manages risk without sacrificing market returns or flexibility to provide reliable retirement income from your portfolio."

 

And you guys think this is an inappropriate forum for an M* Podcast produced for the benefit of members/readers? You two waste enough of Ryan's time without making baseless complaints.

 I sure wish ElLobo's facebook plan had worked out for him!

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@bilperk wrote:

We have not gotten to the point where discussion on any forum is limited to that type of forum.  That would be a moderator's nightmare.  Any investing subject will almost always contain some nexus with dividends and income.

However, I'm not a big fan of statements like " in my opinion,99% of people will fail at doing that over time."  99% seems a little precise for an opinion about what people may or may not fail at.


That wasn't my point at all, Bill.  How many newbies, let alone long time regulars, monitor the IDR forum?  Then, how many retirees have their whole portfolios in individual stocks?  Even I no longer hold individual dividend paying stocks in my retirement portfolios!  Besides, there was nothing in the podcast, let alone the OP, with ANY nexus with dividends and income, or even retirement, for that matter!

The whole point of the poscast was really 'active versus passive' fund investing, tied in with a modern robo-advisor service!

Seems as if the passive market index t***l has evolved into a carnival shill for a financial services company, although he/she is not quite up to a carnival barker status.

My REAL question, however, was for WIN1177.  I wonder what the good Doctor found 'interesting' about this podcast?

 

ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
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@ElLobo wrote:

@bilperk wrote:

We have not gotten to the point where discussion on any forum is limited to that type of forum.  That would be a moderator's nightmare.  Any investing subject will almost always contain some nexus with dividends and income.

However, I'm not a big fan of statements like " in my opinion,99% of people will fail at doing that over time."  99% seems a little precise for an opinion about what people may or may not fail at.


 

Seems as if the passive market index t***l has evolved into a carnival shill for a financial services company, although he/she is not quite up to a carnival barker status.

 

 


Yup, another carnival schill schtick, Bentley!  Thanks for bringing Jon Stein and Betterment Financial LLC to the attention of retirees, especially on the Investing During Retirement forum.  Adds a lot to the collective knowledge of M* posters!  8-))
(I think I'll flag this thread to Ryan as inappropriate for this forum and your attempt to tout a commercial enterprise!  Might have been better posted on Off Topic, or Bogleheads!) @RyanM 

My point is that IDR is the wrong forum to post it!  The only reason I could come up with is it's another of your typical t***l nonsense!

Flagging Ryan was only with respect to this particular posting by the t***l, not to the M* article itself, on this specific forum. 

 

 In the twenty or so years we have been posting I have questioned your strategies, never your sex. I have never called you names, personally demeaned you, or suggested you posted something on an inappropriate forum. I agree 100% with Bill that it would be a nightmare for Ryan to react to your opinions about why or where individuals post M* podcasts, third party articles or simply express their opinions or ask questions. I also say enough is enough. I have colored a few of your uncalled for remarks which this forum has been doing a good job of eliminating in the hopes that @RyanM will review your inappropriate name-calling.

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"I agree 100% with Bill that it would be a nightmare for Ryan to react to your opinions about why or where individuals post M* podcasts, third party articles or simply express their opinions or ask questions."

Aha!  Now we know the rest of the story.  Bill Muldoon and Troll Troody!  I seriously doubt Ryan even remembers "Car 54 Where Are You?", ever heard of "Happy Hunting", or even knows who Ethel Merman, let alone Virginia Gibson are!  Remember, M* forums are for entertainment, especially Off Topic.

ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
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I'm not moving the post. @ElLobo please move on. @Bentley please calm down.

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@RyanM wrote:

I'm not moving the post. @ElLobo please move on. @Bentley please calm down.


OK, Ryan, got it.  And that's all I have to say about that!

On another note, I noticed that you deleted a post, by NotEinstein, as to how Sweden compared to New Zealand in terms of their responses to the virus and the economic shutdowns.  Turns out he/she seems to have gotten that video from my Facebook page, since I posted it there earlier today.  I noticed that norbertc had given one reply, which looked to be reasonably responsive to the question at issue.  I saw nothing remotely political about the post and both the OP and Norbie's reply were spot on in terms of the issues addressed.

My serious question, for you, is why you considered it not in compliance with M* Terms and Conditions, especially on the Off Topic forum?

ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
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Actually, I've been exclusively with Vanguard since 1984 when I told Merrill Lynch to take a hike.


@ElLobo wrote:

@bilperk wrote:

@CarlosDS wrote:

@ElLobo wrote:

(I think I'll flag this thread to Ryan as inappropriate for this forum and your attempt to tout a commercial enterprise!  Might have been better posted on Off Topic, or Bogleheads!) @RyanM 


I guess it would be a conflict of interest for Ryan to have to remove a M* article. :) 

 

 


LOL.  Maybe El missed that.


I'm like Howard Cosell - Ifn I missed something, it wasn't worth remembering!  8-))

Flagging Ryan was only with respect to this particular posting by the t***l, not to the M* article itself, on this specific forum.  I never thought the article itself was trivial or inappropriate on the corporate M* site.  Certainly a lot of newbie investors, just starting out, could benefit by going to Betterment Financial LLC, rather than to Vanguard or Fido, as you and I did 2 decades ago, Bill.


 

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@ElLobo wrote:

@RyanM wrote:

I'm not moving the post. @ElLobo please move on. @Bentley please calm down.


OK, Ryan, got it.  And that's all I have to say about that!

On another note, I noticed that you deleted a post, by NotEinstein, as to how Sweden compared to New Zealand in terms of their responses to the virus and the economic shutdowns.  Turns out he/she seems to have gotten that video from my Facebook page, since I posted it there earlier today.  I noticed that norbertc had given one reply, which looked to be reasonably responsive to the question at issue.  I saw nothing remotely political about the post and both the OP and Norbie's reply were spot on in terms of the issues addressed.

My serious question, for you, is why you considered it not in compliance with M* Terms and Conditions, especially on the Off Topic forum?


Lobo de la casa del toro: Ryan was right. I could not see it but if the video originated from your FB page it sure is unsustained propaganda.

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@CarlosDS wrote:

@ElLobo wrote:

@RyanM wrote:

I'm not moving the post. @ElLobo please move on. @Bentley please calm down.


OK, Ryan, got it.  And that's all I have to say about that!

On another note, I noticed that you deleted a post, by NotEinstein, as to how Sweden compared to New Zealand in terms of their responses to the virus and the economic shutdowns.  Turns out he/she seems to have gotten that video from my Facebook page, since I posted it there earlier today.  I noticed that norbertc had given one reply, which looked to be reasonably responsive to the question at issue.  I saw nothing remotely political about the post and both the OP and Norbie's reply were spot on in terms of the issues addressed.

My serious question, for you, is why you considered it not in compliance with M* Terms and Conditions, especially on the Off Topic forum?


Lobo de la casa del toro: Ryan was right. I could not see it but if the video originated from your FB page it sure is unsustained propaganda.


Actually, Carlos, it was a YouTube blog discussing how the virus affected Sweden, compared to New Zealand, in terms of the number of deaths, infections, and everything we discussed around here for 3 months or so.  Sweden was the one country that did not prohibit international flights (didn't shut it's borders), didn't shut down its economy, and just offered 'suggestions' on how each individual could 'self isolate' from potential infections.  It was a case study on herd immunization, the bottom line being that Sweden's GDP did not fall in the first quarter.

New Zealand, on the other hand, did close their borders and shutdown their economy, but hasn't recovered, although their death rate was substantially lower than Sweden's.  But the blogger pointed out that New Zealand, being in the southern hemisphere, was experiencing the virus in their summer, where hot weather and sunshine probably affected things.

At any rate, there  was absolutely nothing political about it.  NotEinstein, in his/her typical fashion, only presented the 'facts' per the video, with no 'interpretation' as to which country did things better, or worse, let alone anything 'political' in terms of US politics.  Norbie, in turn, started filling in some of the data in terms of other European countries.

ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
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@CarlosDS wrote:

@ElLobo wrote:

@RyanM wrote:

I'm not moving the post. @ElLobo please move on. @Bentley please calm down.


OK, Ryan, got it.  And that's all I have to say about that!

On another note, I noticed that you deleted a post, by NotEinstein, as to how Sweden compared to New Zealand in terms of their responses to the virus and the economic shutdowns.  Turns out he/she seems to have gotten that video from my Facebook page, since I posted it there earlier today.  I noticed that norbertc had given one reply, which looked to be reasonably responsive to the question at issue.  I saw nothing remotely political about the post and both the OP and Norbie's reply were spot on in terms of the issues addressed.

My serious question, for you, is why you considered it not in compliance with M* Terms and Conditions, especially on the Off Topic forum?


Lobo de la casa del toro: Ryan was right. I could not see it but if the video originated from your FB page it sure is unsustained propaganda.


 

Carlos,

  This is ElLobo claiming he would not be posting to forums other than the I&D a few months back. He has done the complete opposite.

 

 

ElLobo
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02-29-2020 06:48 AM
Julian Assange on the I&D forum
As a 2 decade poster on I&D (old, older, and new) forums, I 'expanded' away from I&D last year whenever I stopped investing in individual stocks, going with 2X leveraged products for my whole portfolio.  At the same time, I also 'allocated' away from 100% stocks to 60/40, with my bond 'allocation' being 50/50 PCI and PFFL (2X leveraged prefereds).  My stock allocation, in turn, is 50/50 MRRL (2X leveraged MREITs, high yield) and SDYL (2X leveraged divey aristrocrats).

Having an interest in political discussions, I started posting on the old Off-Topic forum, but even those discussions have been quashed on the new forums.

Until today.  After seeing all of the posts on all of the forums, especially those over the last 5 months, as the market broke out to the upside, and now those over the past week, there is nothing for me to learn anymore, let alone contribute, to non-I&D discussions anymore. I've just bookmarked this forum, as opposed to the all forum list, and will spend most of my time now on Facebook, discussing politics.

For those interested, I am chuck.wolfe.7 on Facebook.

 

 

 

As an aside, take a close look at his retirement portfolio as of 2/29/2020. To say he should have enlisted the help of financial service professional is an understatement.

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