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Valued Contributor

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector

"On the investment front, I'd like to report that I shorted XLE at $100.10 and am just giddy at the unrealized gains I've racked up. In fact, since it seems to be acceptable to tout and shout here on Morningstar nowadays, I'd like to urge others to do the same. So . . . . ."

HAH.  Likely story.  Well, mine is bigger than yours.

I bought the previously mentioned 3X leverage inverse crude ETN, WTID, on Friday, March 6, at $10.25, then sold out this past Wednesday, at $40.75, two days before it triggered a mandatory redemption on a Stop Loss Termination Event for volatility that was too high, for my well being!

Furthermore, I held it in my only margin account, which doubled my 400% gain.  Don't know what my average annualized TR was, however.  PV doesn't look at holding periods less than a month.  It didn't pay any distribution cash while I held.  Luckily, I did so without getting a margin call from my broker.  I didn't have the cahones to short it, however, especially on margin.

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Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@ElLobo wrote:

I bought the previously mentioned 3X leverage inverse crude ETN, WTID, on Friday, March 6, at $10.25, then sold out this past Wednesday, at $40.75, two days before it triggered a mandatory redemption on a Stop Loss Termination Event for volatility that was too high, for my well being!


I have seen many pull these kinds of stunts before. You had it for 2 weeks... But, to be short for 6+ years, that takes guts, perseverance, and mostly steel cojones!

I too had GUSH on one awesome Friday night, maybe end of last year, when there were attacks on an oil Saudi field and it jumped 40% on Monday. Not as big as yours (400%) but 40% overnight was a big one for me!

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Valued Contributor

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector

 

Thought we might have a thread on Energy.

But, seems deteriorating.

R48

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Valued Contributor

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@RainGater wrote:

@cliff wrote:

On the investment front, I'd like to report that I shorted XLE at $100.10 and am just giddy at the unrealized gains I've racked up.  In fact, since it seems to be acceptable to tout and shout here on Morningstar nowadays, I'd like to urge others to do the same.  So . . . . .

Hop Aboard!!  HOP ABOARD!!!  HOP ABOARD!!!! 

 


So, you mean to say that you were short XLE from June 2014 at 100.10 and been *paying* dividends all these years? If yes, I am impressed as you must have paid about $15+ in dividends (approximately).  Even at these levels ($23), as it hit recently, you were not planning to cover it?

I have seen perma bulls but never a perma bear for 6+ years. Impressive!


 

Cliff has been known to tell some whoppers so I'd take it with a grain of salt. Shorting XLE while claiming to hold a portfolio of energy companies makes no sense, but neither did his MLPL purchases.

When hopping aboard be careful what you hop aboard. The TM train

 

VTI with top ten holdings

 

Microsoft

Apple

Amazon

Alphabet

Facebook

Berkshire Hathaway

Johnson & Johnson

JP Morgan

Visa

Proctor & Gamble

 

 

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Participant ○○

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


DOW 23,000!  Hop Aboard!  Nothing can go wrong!

DOW 25,000!!  Hop Aboard!!  Nothing can go wrong!!

DOW 28,000!!!  HOP ABOARD!!!  Really!!!  Don’t miss the train ride!

DOW 33,000 right around the bend!!  Announcement coming, market to rocket!!  Hop Aboard!!!

 

@RainGater, feel free to ignore all “hop aboard” crap by me and all anonymous posters, particularly ones who have a history of being highly ignored.

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Valued Contributor

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@cliff wrote:


DOW 23,000!  Hop Aboard!  Nothing can go wrong!

DOW 25,000!!  Hop Aboard!!  Nothing can go wrong!!

DOW 28,000!!!  HOP ABOARD!!!  Really!!!  Don’t miss the train ride!

DOW 33,000 right around the bend!!  Announcement coming, market to rocket!!  Hop Aboard!!!

 

 


 

 Come on Cliff, let's get it right.

DOW 18,000     Check

DOW 19,000     Check

DOW 20,000     Check

DOW 21,000     Check

DOW 22,000     Check

DOW 23,000     Check

DOW 24,000     Check

DOW 25,000     Check

DOW 26,000     Check

DOW 27,000     Check

DOW 28,000     Check

DOW 29,000     Check

DOW 30,000     Check

DOW 31,000     Check

DOW 32,000     Check

DOW 33,000 minus Check

Coronus!!!!!!!  Check

 

 Hop aboard Alerian 2015......Woooops

 Hop aboard KMI warrant......Woooops

 Hop aboard MLPL.................Woooops

 Hop aboard KMI...................Woooops

 Hop aboard MLP's 2015.......Woooops

 Hop aboard the Trifecta........Woooops

 Hop aboard Infrastructure...Woooops

 

Hopping aboard VTI vs your selections? Oh well...........:)

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Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector

There will always be the Guess Work Piedpipers of the world encouraging others to follow him/her.

Do your own DD and ignore their noise. Even Bentley has suggested this many times.

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Participant ○○

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@RainGater, feel free to hop aboard the train full of folks who understood the utility of the IGNORE function of the legacy forums and used it to make their posting experience a positive one.  It made dealing with trolls as simple as checking a box.  Enough box checking and a troll is just talking to herself.

Alas, the good old days are gone.  

There is some good news, though.  Posters here at Morningstar were always too smart to fall for any “hop aboard” crap no matter how many times it was posted.

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Valued Contributor

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@retiredat48 wrote:

@waffle wrote:

Why is gas 3.35 here in CA and 1.65 in ohio?


Because Ohio is overpriced!  Checkout South Carolina.

R48


Wholesale price of RBOB gasoline is only 63.8c/gallon if you can fill by tanker loads at pipeline source/terminal and have storage tanks to fill. Then you have to blend it with ethanol according to regional directives, add additives that make it branded [Mobile, Shell, BP, etc] or generic [for pumps run by 7-Eleven, grocery stores, warehouse clubs, no-name gas stations], add transportation cost to deliver to gas stations, add state & local taxes [huge in some areas], pay the guy who climbs up the ladder and changes prices on display, very slowly when they go down but quickly when they go up, and you get wide variations in prices paid at pump.

https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/energy/refined-products/rbob-gasoline.html

YBB
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Valued Contributor

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@cliff wrote:


.....feel free to hop aboard the train full of folks who understood the utility of the IGNORE function of the legacy forums and used it to make their posting experience a positive one.  It made dealing with trolls as simple as checking a box.  Enough box checking and a troll is just talking to herself.

There is some good news, though.  Posters here at Morningstar were always too smart to fall for any “hop aboard” crap no matter how many times it was posted.


 

Cliff,

  Think about it for a moment while I was recommending investment in a market portfolio, you suggested MLP's!!

  While I was recommending a diversified Indexed portfolio you were recommending KMI, MLPL KMI warrants, and infrastructure products.

Hop aboard Alerian 2015......Woooops

Hop aboard KMI warrant......Woooops

Hop aboard MLPL.................Woooops

Hop aboard KMI...................Woooops

Hop aboard MLP's 2015.......Woooops

Hop aboard the Trifecta........Woooops

Hop aboard Infrastructure...Woooops

  Earlier this year when I was recommending investing in a TM fund VTI, you recommended TRGP.

  VTI down 29% YTD

  TRGP down 80% YTD

 Go figure. You seem fixated on favorite and ignores, I prefer informed investment advice/products/strategies. The topic is the energy sector, your specialty, let's get back on track.

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Participant ○○

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@outandabout wrote:

There will always be the Guess Work Piedpipers of the world encouraging others to follow him.

Do your own DD and ignore their noise.


You’re right, of course, there will always be an online element that deserve by her actions to be ignored.  If only Morningstar would bring back that simple functionality, we wouldn’t have to deal with all that “hop aboard” stuff.

Then we could get on with an in-depth discussion of the timing of the execution of our bogler-approved Plan B strategy.  I guess we could start a thread titled ‘Hop Aboard Plan B!!’

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Valued Contributor

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@cliff wrote:

@outandabout wrote:

There will always be the Guess Work Piedpipers of the world encouraging others to follow him.

Do your own DD and ignore their noise.


You’re right, of course, there will always be an online element that deserve by her actions to be ignored.  If only Morningstar would bring back that simple functionality, we wouldn’t have to deal with all that “hop aboard” stuff.

Then we could get on with an in-depth discussion of the timing of the execution of our bogler-approved Plan B strategy.  I guess we could start a thread titled ‘Hop Aboard Plan B!!’


Just as infuriating, the old forums were self-policed, where any and all topics could be discussed in any and all detail, with 'problems' worked out between and among specific posters.  Ignore/Favorite was part of that.  Formal moderation/administration hasn't helped, IMO, H as always.

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Valued Contributor

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@cliff wrote:

You’re right, of course, there will always be an online element that deserve by her actions to be ignored. Are you still in HS? Have you ever wondered why I have never returned your insults?

Then we could get on with an in-depth discussion of the timing of the execution of our bogler-approved Plan B strategy.  What is this plan B you keep talking about and who "approved" it?

Talk about DD, what type of DD did you do on these recommendations?

Hop aboard Alerian 2015

Hop aboard KMI

Hop aboard MLPL

Hop aboard KMI

Hop aboard MLP's 2015

Hop aboard the Trifecta

Hop aboard Infrastructure

Hop aboard High Yield energy sector, all aboard.


 

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Valued Contributor

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@cliff wrote:

On the investment front, I'd like to report that I shorted XLE at $100.10 and am just giddy at the unrealized gains I've racked up.  In fact, since it seems to be acceptable to tout and shout here on Morningstar nowadays, I'd like to urge others to do the same.  So . . . . .

Hop Aboard!!  HOP ABOARD!!!  HOP ABOARD!!!! 


 

"I'm going to take a chunk and invest it all in MLPL over the next several days

But here's what I'm thinking on my $1,000,000 MLPL investment:

I'm probably gonna get $111,000 or so this year in income.
> That has a good chance of growing about 15% a year because the index indicated distributions are gonna grow 7-8%.  The index distributions have grown at that rate in the recent past and MLPL's average distribution growth has been 15%.
> Doin' the math, I should almost get back my $1,000,000 in five years.  That's what it works out to."-----   Cliff May 2015

 

15% a year?

 $111,000 distribution in 2015?

 "get back my $1,000,000 in five years"?

  How long after these bold statements were made did MLPL collapse and lock in everyone's losses?

 

 Ever hear the story of the little boy that cried Wolf?

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Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


gotcha, girl.

Going back to 2015 to grab a humorous post to try to dig yourself out of a hole.  You’re the girlie who complained a few days ago that someone posted on a 2 month old post of yours that made you look pretty silly.  In all CAPS you cried.

Give it up.  Your constant attacking crapola to puff yourself up is just old and tired.  Hop Aboard a style that is not so juvenile and maybe, just maybe, someone would pay attention to you.

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Participant ○○

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@RyanM, I think you should lock this thread before tears start to flow.  Or before I start drinking and begin to think the crap I post is funny.  And before what’s her name gets around a sharp kitchen knife.

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Valued Contributor

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@retiredat48 wrote:

 

Bentley, you are cherry picking start dates.  While perhaps factual, also misleading.  

 

 

 


 

 Bob,

 How so? The table starts from the inception of XLE, the topic of discussion. If you have more inclusive dates for the XLE I'd be interested in the source.

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Valued Contributor

Re: XLE: Giving Up On The Energy Sector


@retiredat48 wrote:

 

Bentley, you are cherry picking start dates.  While perhaps factual, also misleading.  

How about my start date, owning Vang'ds Energy funds since inception.  M* Charts only go back to 1984, but even then, $10,000 in VGENX grew to $384, 000 in later 2018.   Mucho more if owned longer.  But not as long/good as my holding VWELX since 1953...and still owned!

R48

 

 


 

48,

 Below is the table I posted and which you accuse me of cherry-picking a start date?

 1.) The OP, the thread subject and the subject of the article referenced in the OP is the XLE.

 2.) The start date for the comparison to SPY was the INCEPTION date of the XLE.

 3.) If you want to bring in additional anecdotal information about your funds that is fine but to say the data I posted was cherry-picked is really off base. BTW, I believe the last 21 years is more reflective of the energy market than the one existed 50+ years ago.

 

 

                                                      XLE                SPY

Start date:12/22/199812/22/1998
End date:03/20/202003/20/2020
Start price/share:$23.27$120.69
End price/share:$25.86$228.80
Starting shares:429.8282.86
Ending shares:653.70120.06
Dividends reinvested/share:$24.49$60.26
Total return:69.05%174.69%
Average Annual Total Return:2.50%4.87%
Starting investment:$10,000.00$10,000.00
Ending investment:$16,901.82$27,475.05
Years:21.2521.25
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