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MLP Index performance

The latest Alerian Index factsheet just hit the street.

"The Alerian MLP Infrastructure Index is a composite of energy infrastructure Master Limited Partnerships (MLPs). The capped, float-adjusted, capitalization-weighted index, whose constituents earn the majority of their cash flow from midstream activities involving energy commodities, is disseminated in real-time on a price-return basis (AMZI) and on a total-return basis (AMZIX)."

The owners of the index publish a quarterly factsheet detailing its performance while making comparisons to alternative investments. Once again the Alerian comes in dead last over the past YTD, 1yr, 3yr, 5yr and 10yr trailing time period ending June 30th, 2020.


From the factsheet.

Alerian yield = 11.8%

S&P yield = 1.9%


10yr growth of $1,000 in the Index would leave you with $871, including dividends after 10yrs.

The factsheet points out that the same $1,000 invested in the S&P500 would have returned $3,703.

In other words, the S&P returned more than 4.25 times as much as investing in the high yield infrastructure Index over the past ten years!


https://www.alerian.com/wp-content/uploads/2020.06.30-AMZI-Facts.pdf

"There seems to be some perverse human characteristic that likes to make easy things difficult.---Warren Buffett"

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Contributor ○

Re: MLP Index performance

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?

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Re: MLP Index performance

The fact sheet reminds me of TV drug commercials that show happy people "getting the most out of life" with the aid of drug X, while noting sotto voce the reported side effects of constipation, headache, blindness, leprosy, and epilepsy.    

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Re: MLP Index performance


@PN wrote:

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?


 

What pain are you talking about?

 I have never lost money investing in MLP investments. I have made money and posted those trades in real-time. I post the quarterly Alerian MLP Infrastructure Index, if you consider posting objective performance data negative, generated by the Index owner disturbing, you might want to suggest they stop publicizing their performance online..........:))
 

"There seems to be some perverse human characteristic that likes to make easy things difficult.---Warren Buffett"

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Re: MLP Index performance


@Bentley wrote:

@PN wrote:

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?


 

What pain are you talking about?

 I have never lost money investing in MLP investments. I have made money and posted those trades in real-time. I post the quarterly Alerian MLP Infrastructure Index, if you consider posting objective performance data negative, generated by the Index owner disturbing, you might want to suggest they stop publicizing their performance online..........:))
 


OK, so you made money off your own MLP investments, but have chosen to be a crusader for others who may not be so lucky, is that what you are saying?

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Re: MLP Index performance


@PN wrote:

@Bentley wrote:

@PN wrote:

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?


 

What pain are you talking about?

 I have never lost money investing in MLP investments. I have made money and posted those trades in real-time. I post the quarterly Alerian MLP Infrastructure Index, if you consider posting objective performance data negative, generated by the Index owner disturbing, you might want to suggest they stop publicizing their performance online..........:))
 


OK, so you made money off your own MLP investments, but have chosen to be a crusader for others who may not be so lucky, is that what you are saying?


 

  The factsheet which is publicized by the owners of the Alerian comes out quarterly ( once every 3 months ).  If you think to post snippets from it and to provide the internet address of the Alerian factsheet, once every three months, makes me a "crusader" so be it. You have to admit it does shine a bright light on the dangers of stretching for yield and highly concentrated portfolios.

"There seems to be some perverse human characteristic that likes to make easy things difficult.---Warren Buffett"

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Re: MLP Index performance


@PN wrote:

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?


PN, if it isn't MLPs it's AT&T or some other stock that Bentley has objected to over the years even though he doesn't invest in individual stocks. Best to ignore him!

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Re: MLP Index performance


@outandabout wrote:

@PN wrote:

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?


PN, if it isn't MLPs it's AT&T or some other stock that Bentley has objected to over the years even though he doesn't invest in individual stocks. Best to ignore him!


 

Yeah, ignore the one that has been warning against ATT and MLPs for years!

                            T                     VTI

15 year             5.98%             9.03%

10 year             7.28%           14.08%

5 year              2.55%            10.51%

3 year             -1.01%            11.17%

1 year            -5.10%               7.28%

YTD              -19.32%              -.97%

"There seems to be some perverse human characteristic that likes to make easy things difficult.---Warren Buffett"

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Re: MLP Index performance


@PN wrote:

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?


@PN Bentley loves posting about the underperformance of MLPs to rub it in Cliff’s face.

“Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful.” ― Ann Landers

helmut

 

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Re: MLP Index performance


@helmut wrote:

@PN wrote:

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?


@PN Bentley loves posting about the underperformance of MLPs to rub it in Cliff’s face.

“Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful.” ― Ann Landers

helmut

 


Well it’s a good thing that Cliff is good natured. Otherwise we’d have a situation like over on FD’s 2020-bond funds analysis thread.

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Re: MLP Index performance


@PN wrote:

@helmut wrote:

@PN wrote:

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?


@PN Bentley loves posting about the underperformance of MLPs to rub it in Cliff’s face.

“Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful.” ― Ann Landers

helmut

 


Well it’s a good thing that Cliff is good natured. Otherwise we’d have a situation like over on FD’s Bond Fund thread.

 


 

 It's a good thing that I'm good-natured because the OP has absolutely nothing to do with Clifford! Focus, the S&P outperformed the Alerian Index by a factor exceeding 4.25 over the past decade.

"There seems to be some perverse human characteristic that likes to make easy things difficult.---Warren Buffett"

veni vidi vici vti
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Re: MLP Index performance


@Bentley wrote:

@PN wrote:

@helmut wrote:

@PN wrote:

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?


@PN Bentley loves posting about the underperformance of MLPs to rub it in Cliff’s face.

“Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful.” ― Ann Landers

helmut

 


Well it’s a good thing that Cliff is good natured. Otherwise we’d have a situation like over on FD’s Bond Fund thread.

 


 

 It's a good thing that I'm good-natured because the OP has absolutely nothing to do with Clifford! Focus, the S&P outperformed the Alerian Index by a factor exceeding 4.25 over the past decade.


”the OP has absolutely nothing to do with Clifford” Wink, wink, dog whistle!

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Re: MLP Index performance


@JonSnow wrote:

@Bentley wrote:

@PN wrote:

@helmut wrote:

@PN wrote:

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?


@PN Bentley loves posting about the underperformance of MLPs to rub it in Cliff’s face.

“Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful.” ― Ann Landers

helmut

 


Well it’s a good thing that Cliff is good natured. Otherwise we’d have a situation like over on FD’s Bond Fund thread.

 


 

 It's a good thing that I'm good-natured because the OP has absolutely nothing to do with Clifford! Focus, the S&P outperformed the Alerian Index by a factor exceeding 4.25 over the past decade.


”the OP has absolutely nothing to do with Clifford” Wink, wink, dog whistle!


 

I have been posting the Alerian quarterly factsheet for quite some time now. Rather than bring up who championed infrastructure products and who warned about concentrated high yield portfolios in the past, what are your thoughts going forward?

How many years before the Alerian pulls back even with the S&P? How many would have stuck with Alerian products IF they could have foreseen the S&P outperforming by a factor over 4.5 during the past decade?

We have been very fortunate to have been investing over the past decade, very few sectors of the US economy failed to participate. The Alerian happens to be an outlier.

Next Alerian factsheet comes out in October, will it close the gap?


From July factsheet.
Alerian yield = 11.8%
S&P yield = 1.9%



10yr growth of $1,000 in the Index would leave you with $871, including dividends after 10yrs.

The factsheet points out that the same $1,000 invested in the S&P500 would have returned $3,703.


In other words, the S&P returned more than 4.25 times as much as investing in the high yield infrastructure Index over the past ten years!

"There seems to be some perverse human characteristic that likes to make easy things difficult.---Warren Buffett"

veni vidi vici vti
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Re: MLP Index performance


@Bentley wrote:

@JonSnow wrote:

@Bentley wrote:

@PN wrote:

@helmut wrote:

@PN wrote:

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?


@PN Bentley loves posting about the underperformance of MLPs to rub it in Cliff’s face.

“Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful.” ― Ann Landers

helmut

 


Well it’s a good thing that Cliff is good natured. Otherwise we’d have a situation like over on FD’s Bond Fund thread.

 


 

 It's a good thing that I'm good-natured because the OP has absolutely nothing to do with Clifford! Focus, the S&P outperformed the Alerian Index by a factor exceeding 4.25 over the past decade.


”the OP has absolutely nothing to do with Clifford” Wink, wink, dog whistle!


 

I have been posting the Alerian quarterly factsheet for quite some time now. Rather than bring up who championed infrastructure products and who warned about concentrated high yield portfolios in the past, what are your thoughts going forward?

How many years before the Alerian pulls back even with the S&P? How many would have stuck with Alerian products IF they could have foreseen the S&P outperforming by a factor over 4.5 during the past decade?

We have been very fortunate to have been investing over the past decade, very few sectors of the US economy failed to participate. The Alerian happens to be an outlier.

Next Alerian factsheet comes out in October, will it close the gap?


From July factsheet.
Alerian yield = 11.8%
S&P yield = 1.9%



10yr growth of $1,000 in the Index would leave you with $871, including dividends after 10yrs.

The factsheet points out that the same $1,000 invested in the S&P500 would have returned $3,703.


In other words, the S&P returned more than 4.25 times as much as investing in the high yield infrastructure Index over the past ten years!


@Bentley Not exactly new news.  What exactly is your obsession with pointing out the under performance of the Alerian index?

helmut

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Explorer ○

Re: MLP Index performance

Well, Helmut, a little schadenfreude can be hard to resist. Or if not exactly schadenfreude, just the pleasure of not having suffered the same misfortune oneself. Is there a German word for the latter?

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Re: MLP Index performance


@helmut wrote:

@Bentley wrote:

@JonSnow wrote:

@Bentley wrote:

@PN wrote:

@helmut wrote:

@PN wrote:

Bentley, my understanding is that you do not currently own any MLPs. But you keep posting these negative posts about MLPs. Question: Can you please tell us what happened to you and how much money you lost in MLPs? What is driving this pain?


@PN Bentley loves posting about the underperformance of MLPs to rub it in Cliff’s face.

“Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful.” ― Ann Landers

helmut

 


Well it’s a good thing that Cliff is good natured. Otherwise we’d have a situation like over on FD’s Bond Fund thread.

 


 

 It's a good thing that I'm good-natured because the OP has absolutely nothing to do with Clifford! Focus, the S&P outperformed the Alerian Index by a factor exceeding 4.25 over the past decade.


”the OP has absolutely nothing to do with Clifford” Wink, wink, dog whistle!


 

I have been posting the Alerian quarterly factsheet for quite some time now. Rather than bring up who championed infrastructure products and who warned about concentrated high yield portfolios in the past, what are your thoughts going forward?

How many years before the Alerian pulls back even with the S&P? How many would have stuck with Alerian products IF they could have foreseen the S&P outperforming by a factor over 4.5 during the past decade?

We have been very fortunate to have been investing over the past decade, very few sectors of the US economy failed to participate. The Alerian happens to be an outlier.

Next Alerian factsheet comes out in October, will it close the gap?


From July factsheet.
Alerian yield = 11.8%
S&P yield = 1.9%



10yr growth of $1,000 in the Index would leave you with $871, including dividends after 10yrs.

The factsheet points out that the same $1,000 invested in the S&P500 would have returned $3,703.


In other words, the S&P returned more than 4.25 times as much as investing in the high yield infrastructure Index over the past ten years!


@Bentley Not exactly new news.  What exactly is your obsession with pointing out the under performance of the Alerian index?

helmut


 

 Obsession? The Alerian factsheet only comes out once a quarter. Prior to 2015, there were multiple posts a day about MLP's, the Alerian, and infrastructure products. Did you ever ask, those with true obsessions who posted daily about those products prior to 2015, the same question you ask me for posting the quarterly Alerian factsheet?

"There seems to be some perverse human characteristic that likes to make easy things difficult.---Warren Buffett"

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Re: MLP Index performance

So Bently:

 I don't get it? You say you have made money investing in MLPs but criticize the investment or at least those who post about doing so. what am I missing here? If you have a way to invest profitably in MLPs why aren't you telling us about the right time or way to make money in MLPs rather than criticizing others that do invest in MLPs?

Is there a timing thing to it or a value metric to use, do you just get in and get out but not buy and hold? Do you sell when the PE hits a certain target, do you just collect the dividend in cash and not reinvest? Are you selling when the price of oil hits a peak or interest rates go up?

Sharing this with us would help us more than criticizing those of us who seem to have timed it badly like from 2015 to now. Henry

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Re: MLP Index performance

“Obsession? The Alerian factsheet only comes out once a quarter.”

Then post 4 times a year about it. No more than that, please.

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Re: MLP Index performance


@hankthetank wrote:

So Bently:

 I don't get it? You say you have made money investing in MLPs but criticize the investment or at least those who post about doing so. what am I missing here? If you have a way to invest profitably in MLPs why aren't you telling us about the right time or way to make money in MLPs rather than criticizing others that do invest in MLPs?

Is there a timing thing to it or a value metric to use, do you just get in and get out but not buy and hold? Do you sell when the PE hits a certain target, do you just collect the dividend in cash and not reinvest? Are you selling when the price of oil hits a peak or interest rates go up?

Henry


 

Henry,

I have posted every buy/sell I have ever made involving MLP products. If you are able to access the “2X or not 2X?” thread from the I&D forum in May 2015 you will see I used a “dividend capture strategy.” All trades were posted in real-time, not days later, end of the day but in real-time. The product used was MLPL a levered ETN. I do not recommend using either levered products or a dividend capture strategy.
I will be the first to admit that I was fortunate to have not lost my shirt as it was a very volatile product with an extreme yield. Also, profits as stated at the time were de minimis. IMO, other than acamus and Norbert few if any understood the product, the basis for that opinion is, as I remember, about twelve members announced when they bought, but no one other than myself announced a sale before it went bust. What could go wrong with a product with a 25% yield?
I’d be happy to answer any other questions you have regarding the “dividend capture strategy” I used with MLPL, again with the understanding that I do not recommend using it.

Cheers

"There seems to be some perverse human characteristic that likes to make easy things difficult.---Warren Buffett"

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Re: MLP Index performance

Bently:

 

So you invested in MLPL, using dividend capture method on a levered product, but you don't recommend this to others, is this because you don't want to be blamed if someone tries to do this and loses their shirt? And you acknowledge that you were lucky. But you did post in real time without delay your buys and sells. But you haven't explained what point of info told you when to get in and when to get out? How did you even with good know luck when to get out to lock in a profit when others have not who invest in MLPs? What was the difference?

Henry

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