cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
     
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?

YTD estimate as of 03/23/2020

MLPA -62.8%...

PFFL -59.6%...BDCL -91.95...DVHL -77.9...HDLV -77.7%...LMLP -83.85...

LRET -75.6...SDYL -64.6%...CEFL -77.5%...DVYL -72.4...

and drumroll...MORL -98.2%

Higher-income regardless of risk/reward, what a "great" concept  :-)

 

0 Kudos
33 Replies
Highlighted
Contributor ○○○

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?

FD, almost everyone recognizes that these invests are with ridiculous crazy risk. I’d like to respectfully acknowledge that this is no time for ridicule. 

Highlighted
Follower ○○

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?

FD,

Have you met your goal of never losing more than 6% on your portfolio so far this year?

 

Dan

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@Dan6912 wrote:

FD,

Have you met your goal of never losing more than 6% on your portfolio so far this year?

 

Dan


The goal is actually to never lose 3% from any last top.

See this thread (link)...I'm up more than 6% YTD.

Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?

Any forum as big as M* has to have at least one genius. Congratulations FD!

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@FatKat wrote:

Any forum as big as M* has to have at least one genius. Congratulations FD!


You are welcome.

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Follower ○○

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?

Sooooo ... HAVE YOU MET YOUR GOAL IN THIS ENVIRONMENT W/O GOING TOTALLY TO CASH?

 

 

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Participant ○

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@FD1001 wrote:

YTD estimate as of 03/23/2020

MLPA -62.8%...

PFFL -59.6%...BDCL -91.95...DVHL -77.9...HDLV -77.7%...LMLP -83.85...

LRET -75.6...SDYL -64.6%...CEFL -77.5%...DVYL -72.4...

and drumroll...MORL -98.2%

Higher-income regardless of risk/reward, what a "great" concept  :-)

 


Now you’re just being a jerk, as defined at https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jerk, definition 1(b). 

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@Dan6912 wrote:

Sooooo ... HAVE YOU MET YOUR GOAL IN THIS ENVIRONMENT W/O GOING TOTALLY TO CASH?

 

 


I absolutely met my goal

CASH is a good easy option.  Who knows,  I can short too which I don't do.  Anything is possible.

I stated many times that I have the flexibility to do whatever I want and I would protect my portfolio...mmm...I see where is it going  :-)

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Follower ○○

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?

The only place it is going is ....

I was wondering how you managed to do it in this environment.   

Sorry if you feel violated!

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@FD1001 wrote:

YTD estimate as of 03/23/2020

MLPA -62.8%...

PFFL -59.6%...BDCL -91.95...DVHL -77.9...HDLV -77.7%...LMLP -83.85...

LRET -75.6...SDYL -64.6%...CEFL -77.5%...DVYL -72.4...

and drumroll...MORL -98.2%

Higher-income regardless of risk/reward, what a "great" concept  :-)

 


Wow!  Just saw this thread pop up on my 'active' list!

@rhythmmethodWhere is the ridicule?  Ifn at me, where FD presented my portfolio from several months ago, it doesn't represent my portfolio from a month ago, let alone now.  So I won't comment on an investment that tanked, ifn I didn't, or don't, hold it.  At any rate, a 2X leveraged investment really doesn't represent twice the risk at twice the return, as FD seems to think.  It DOES represent twice the capital gain, or loss, of the share/unit price but also twice the distribution yield, which is never negative!  Twice the risk as well as twice the reward ONLY works whenever distributions are reinvested, not when taken in cash and withdrawn from a portfolio.

Frinstance, assume you have a 2X leveraged investment, trading at, say $20/share, based upon an underlying asset also trading at $20/share.  Assume the underlying asset pays a $2.50/year divey, or a 12.5% yield.  The leveraged investment pays $5, so it yields 25% (twice, remember?)

Now assume the underlying asset drops steps down in value by $2.50 and stays there, for the year.  At the end of that year, the $2.50 divey you received 'compensated you' for the $2.50 loss in principle.  So the underlying asset had a zero TR for the year, correct?

Now think of the 2X leveraged investment.  It drops $5 in value, and stays there (twice underlying), but pays a $5 distribution.  It's TR is also zero!  But you're assuming distributions are reinvested.  If not, as an income investor might do, the value of your 2X investment is down to $15, the value of the underlying asset is $17.50, but I have twice as much cash to spend as the other guy.

FD is looking at capital gains and losses, not total returns.

To all others:  My portfolio 'goal' is to have it produce twice as much spendable cash as I need for my retirement withdrawal.  At the beginning of the year, my goal was more than met, generating about 2.1X the cash I needed.  I won't know until about 3 weeks from now what my portfolio cash flow will be, for the remainder of this year.  Q1 came in at 2.1X.

Assuming my portfolio value went down 50%, while the market tanked 25%, I wouldn't be surprised ifn my portfolio cash flow goes down to 1X for the rest of the year, even assuming the  markets don't recover.  Whenever funds deleverage, the distribution cash does as well.   And if my cash flow DOES drop down to 1X, it's just what the doctor ordered!  8-))

Don't be too hard on FD.  He barely understands risk/rewards, let alone portfolio cash flow, leveraged or not!

ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@Dan6912 wrote:

The only place it is going is ....

I was wondering how you managed to do it in this environment.   

Sorry if you feel violated!


I get so many "love" posts so I don't know if the poster is serious or not. 

I have done do it by using cash because bond funds crashed too but I realized early.  When I see that stocks go down + most bond categories are not working rationally there is something wrong.  Add to it global scary Coronavirus + VIX>50 and why I got out.  It got ugly very quickly after that.

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Participant ○○○

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@ElLobo wrote:
Where is the ridicule?  Ifn at me, where FD presented my portfolio from several months ago, it doesn't represent my portfolio from a month ago, let alone now.  So I won't comment on an investment that tanked, ifn I didn't, or don't, hold it. 

I always wanted to ask you how you manage your portfolio with all these types of leveraged ETF/ETNs when most of the normal human beings will have hard time accepting the severe losses let alone understand how they operate?

You seemed to be very knowledgeable and understand how these complex instruments work and I guess that lets you play this game?  Do you trade often as these instruments lose or gain a lot in a short period of time?

Anyways, kudos on persisting with these instruments even in this severe credit risk environment, maybe the most severe in the last several decades.

If I am investing 5% or so of my PF in these leveraged ETF/ETNs, I wouldn't have much of a problem but you seemed to be all in the same category. What percentage is the leveraged products in your PF, if you don't mind me asking?

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@RainGater wrote:

@ElLobo wrote:
Where is the ridicule?  Ifn at me, where FD presented my portfolio from several months ago, it doesn't represent my portfolio from a month ago, let alone now.  So I won't comment on an investment that tanked, ifn I didn't, or don't, hold it. 

 

You seemed to be very knowledgeable and understand how these complex instruments work and I guess that lets you play this game?  Do you trade often as these instruments lose or gain a lot in a short period of time?

Anyways, kudos on persisting with these instruments even in this severe credit risk environment, maybe the most severe in the last several decades.

............... What percentage is the leveraged products in your PF, if you don't mind me asking?


 

ElLobo posted his portfolio just days before the market dip. He was 100% in leveraged funds.


"my bond 'allocation' being 50/50 PCI and PFFL (2X leveraged prefereds).  My stock allocation, in turn, is 50/50 MRRL (2X leveraged MREITs, high yield) and SDYL (2X leveraged divey aristrocrats)".----ElLobo

 


MRRL……………..-98.47% YTD

SDYL……………..-52.85%. YTD

PFFL………………-46.41% YTD

PCI………………-35.33% YTD


2X levered UBS ETN’s are about the worst investment any retired investor could ever make, IMHO. They are terrible products that were built to hedge an overnight position, usually employed by hedge fund managers. They were never meant to be held. A high percentage of UBS’ levered funds have already been mandatorily redeemed, locking in huge losses for investors. Look at the YTD returns, judge for yourself just how knowledgable he is holding levered UBS ETN's as 100% of his retirement portfolio.

veni vidi vici vti
0 Kudos
Highlighted
Participant ○○○

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@Bentley wrote:

ElLobo posted his portfolio just days before the market dip. He was 100% in leveraged funds."my bond 'allocation' being 50/50 PCI and PFFL (2X leveraged prefereds).  My stock allocation, in turn, is 50/50 MRRL (2X leveraged MREITs, high yield) and SDYL (2X leveraged divey aristrocrats)".----ElLobo


Just wow! Maybe, he is hedged in some other way or got out before this horrendous dip? 

Well, hats off to him, either way, as holding these in these highly volatile times are not for the faint of the heart. 

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@RainGater wrote:

@Bentley wrote:

ElLobo posted his portfolio just days before the market dip. He was 100% in leveraged funds."my bond 'allocation' being 50/50 PCI and PFFL (2X leveraged prefereds).  My stock allocation, in turn, is 50/50 MRRL (2X leveraged MREITs, high yield) and SDYL (2X leveraged divey aristrocrats)".----ElLobo


Just wow! Maybe, he is hedged in some other way or got out before this horrendous dip? 

Well, hats off to him, either way, as holding these in these highly volatile times are not for the faint of the heart. 


I guess you want the troll to answer your other questions, RainGator?  8-))

ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?

"As a 2 decade poster on I&D (old, older, and new) forums, I 'expanded' away from I&D last year whenever I stopped investing in individual stocks, going with 2X leveraged products for my whole portfolio. At the same time, I also 'allocated' away from 100% stocks to 60/40, with my bond 'allocation' being 50/50 PCI and PFFL (2X leveraged prefereds). My stock allocation, in turn, is 50/50 MRRL (2X leveraged MREITs, high yield) and SDYL (2X leveraged divey aristrocrats)."---------ElLobo 4 weeks ago

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong but you were locked into your loss with MRRL due to its mandatory redemption and just recently sold your PCI locking in those losses.

 Please correct me if I'm wrong but I tried to warn you about MLPL before it cratered and had suggested you refrain from using 2X UBS ETN's in a retirement portfolio.

MRRL……………..-98.47% YTD

SDYL……………..-52.85%. YTD

PFFL………………-46.41% YTD

PCI………………-35.33% YTD

veni vidi vici vti
0 Kudos
Highlighted
Participant ○○○

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@ElLobo wrote:
I guess you want the troll to answer your other questions, RainGator?  8-))

No, please answer as I want to get a different perspective on these investments and curious to see how you are making it work for a long time.

I could not really figure out whether Bentley is being snarky or maybe, he cares for you based on the content of his posts. It's an investment methodology and if you are happy with what you are doing, that's all it matters, IMHO. No one is going to die with all the wealth and as long it covers your anticipated living expense for life, I wouldn't care too but I am not there yet. ;)

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@RainGater wrote:

@ElLobo wrote:
I guess you want the troll to answer your other questions, RainGator?  8-))

No, please answer as I want to get a different perspective on these investments and curious to see how you are making it work for a long time.

I am not sure why Bentley has some animosity towards you. It's an investment methodology and if you are happy with what you are doing, that's all it matters,


 

  Where did I show any animosity towards ElLobo? Where? This is an investment forum and I and most others believe ElLobo's portfolio is very poorly constructed. Nothing against ElLobo, we just disagree with his strategy of investing in the highest-yielding products he can find. There is a direct relationship between yield and risk.

@RainGaterWhat do you think about a 2X UBS ETN portfolio for a retirement portfolio? Look at the YTD returns and make your own judgment.

 

MRRL……………..-98.47% YTD

SDYL……………..-52.85%. YTD

PFFL………………-46.41% YTD

PCI………………-35.33% YTD

 

 Does this look like a reasonable portfolio to you?

 

[Edit at 1900 EST]........I quoted RainGater accurately, he must have gone back and changed his post without an edit notation.

veni vidi vici vti
0 Kudos
Highlighted
Participant ○○○

Re: First came MLP then came 2X..what's next?


@Bentley wrote:

[Edit at 1900 EST]........I quoted RainGater accurately, he must have gone back and changed his post without an edit notation.

 Does this look like a reasonable portfolio to you?


Yes, I edited it to NOT make it more personal and sorry about that.

No, it doesn't look like a reasonable portfolio and that's why I wanted to pick his brains to see how he is able to make it work? No one wants to keep losing as it is very clear to me, and most others, that if you hold these toxic instruments long term, you will lose a lot.

So, he must be doing something different than what you assume as he seems to be a very knowledgeable investor when it comes to derivative investing. He seems to understand risk/volatility very well and there is no question about it.

0 Kudos
Announcements