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We have a rule that discussing politics is not allowed on this forum or any of the sub-forums. Persistently this is violated. I suggest this ban be reassessed. It seems to me that there are enough people who wish to discuss politics, on this forum AND WITH the people who participate on this forum. If it is really a problem isn't it OUR problem? Are we hurting anyone else? If people become as adamant about other "off topics" will they also become off limits? Some people are just adamant by nature. The topic isn't the problem (whatever the problem is). It makes more sense to ban posters that get out of hand (whatever that means), rather than the topic which itself is neutral.

If "whoever" (?) is just not ready for the inclusion of politics on this forum can we at least have these threads locked rather than removed? It would provide some closure for those who have contributed to the thread to be able to see what became of the discussion. We as individuals contribute to threads which sometimes become political due to the postings of others. For the sake of those contributors who didn't cross whatever forbidden threshold, the posts should remain visible. I find myself posting less often than I would because I don't want to waste my time posting on a thread which will be removed, leaving me feeling ripped off. All in all, our current policy doesn't seem tailored for adults, nor do I believe that making posts of a political nature mean that we are children. Frankly, I just don't see the problem with threads going political as long as they stay on topic at least to some degree. 

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Community Manager Community Manager
Community Manager

This thread is a real mess and is now locked. I hope everyone in the US has a fine Memorial Day weekend.

View solution in original post

89 Replies
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Frequent Contributor

Bogleheads is an adult space, privately owned, that has successfully eliminated political discussions. 

I visit Morningstar for the purpose of finance principally. I have posted on this site long before it was revamped. I believe I began in the early 2000s.

I also posted at that time in the Politics group. There were many heated exchanges and I was as partisan as most posters.  I am glad the revamped Morningstar is trying to shut the partisanship down.

My sense is the stress of covid-19 plus the November election has led to the political posts. But I would like to see the partisans of any inclination take their commentary elsewhere.  Twitter might be an option. 

In the meantime, it bothers me to see how disrespectful some posters are when Ryan has attempted to be reasonable.  Some of the behavior is childish in the extreme. 

That's my view.

Bob

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Contributor ○○

Bob is exactly right.  The issue here is not really to have political discussions or not, but some here have not learned to respect one another and get along with one another, regardless of differences.   

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Frequent Contributor

Posters should subscribe to other sites for their political material. M* has had poor experiences in the past with political posts - with or without a political forum. The expectation that M* should be everything to everybody is unreasonable. M* is an investment/finance site and its current policy bans political posts - that should remain so. Off-topic is for investment/finance stuff that doesn't fit clearly in other named forums. If anything, political posts should be caught early and should be nipped in bud.

YBB
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Frequent Contributor

@GLI2019 wrote:

Bogleheads is an adult space, privately owned, that has successfully eliminated political discussions. 

I visit Morningstar for the purpose of finance principally. I have posted on this site long before it was revamped. I believe I began in the early 2000s.

I also posted at that time in the Politics group. There were many heated exchanges and I was as partisan as most posters.  I am glad the revamped Morningstar is trying to shut the partisanship down.

My sense is the stress of covid-19 plus the November election has led to the political posts. But I would like to see the partisans of any inclination take their commentary elsewhere.  Twitter might be an option. 

In the meantime, it bothers me to see how disrespectful some posters are when Ryan has attempted to be reasonable.  Some of the behavior is childish in the extreme. 

That's my view.

Bob


 

+1


  My former colleagues and I went through an indoctrination class with our company when we first became employees. In one of the booklets that we received, we were instructed not to engage in any conversations involving race, religion, or finances. At the time I found that strange; today it all makes sense. One of our biggest offenders of "political blather" posted he would be leaving these forums to discuss politics on his Facebook page? Well as it turns out that apparently feel through and so now he starts a new messy topic daily. While I never agreed with his investment strategies, I'd rather paddle a kayak across Lake Erie with a rabid raccoon on my lap than listen to his noninvestment nonsense on this investment forum.

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Participant ○○○

@yogibearbull wrote:

Off-topic is for investment/finance stuff that doesn't fit clearly in other named forums. 


That is an opinion that is at odds with the purpose stated by Morningstar for the off topic forum.  That opinion is not a fact.
 
I may agree with your conclusion about banning political crap but let’s not lose a forum where we can discuss Zion taking illegal payoffs and $5000 watches and dams bursting and ugly dogs and college semi-pro basketball.

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Participant ○○○

My vote is "NO," to politics on M* investing forums. It is tough enough as it is to "manage" grumpy old folk (mostly men based on the handles) and keep the conversation focused on the thread objectives.

 

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Frequent Contributor

@SteadyEddy wrote:

My vote is "NO," to politics on M* investing forums. It is tough enough as it is to "manage" grumpy old folk (mostly men based on the handles) and keep the conversation focused on the thread objectives.

 



+1
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Frequent Contributor

People in general are too steamed up about politics now. It brings out the worst in us. We are so politically divived now, so as Yogi said

https://youtu.be/0mj6B4DtNyM  '

Find ALL of my videos here: http://www.youtube.com/user/kootallica Barney Fife - Nip It In The Bud Kootallica Best of Barney Fife Barney Fife funniest moment...
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Contributor ○○○

One solution is to have a “closed forum” that takes a request to enter. It would be unmoderated. If you are not part of that forum regular posters cannot see any post. It was a good solution on a classic car forum I am on. 

I called it the trash can. Sure it takes up server space but the folks that complain about having a true off-topic forum do not need to see anything at all if they wish. This nonsense about reporting to Ryan about some post a person doesn’t like is dumb. And I’m sure Ryan doesn’t want to deal with it. 

There is hate and discontent, arguing, name calling in the regular forums. I don’t see much difference between that and a political (off-topic) forum. 

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Frequent Contributor

@Bentley wrote:

@GLI2019 wrote:

Bogleheads is an adult space, privately owned, that has successfully eliminated political discussions. 

I visit Morningstar for the purpose of finance principally. I have posted on this site long before it was revamped. I believe I began in the early 2000s.

I also posted at that time in the Politics group. There were many heated exchanges and I was as partisan as most posters.  I am glad the revamped Morningstar is trying to shut the partisanship down.

My sense is the stress of covid-19 plus the November election has led to the political posts. But I would like to see the partisans of any inclination take their commentary elsewhere.  Twitter might be an option. 

In the meantime, it bothers me to see how disrespectful some posters are when Ryan has attempted to be reasonable.  Some of the behavior is childish in the extreme. 

That's my view.

Bob


 

+1


  My former colleagues and I went through an indoctrination class with our company when we first became employees. In one of the booklets that we received, we were instructed not to engage in any conversations involving race, religion, or finances. At the time I found that strange; today it all makes sense. One of our biggest offenders of "political blather" posted he would be leaving these forums to discuss politics on his Facebook page? Well as it turns out that apparently feell through and so now he starts a new messy topic daily. While I never agreed with his investment strategies, I'd rather paddle a kayak across Lake Erie with a rabid raccoon on my lap than listen to his noninvestment nonsense on this investment forum.


-1

Interesting troll.  Each of the 19 or so, not daily, posts that I started over the last 3 months or so was specifically related to the virus, which is supposed to be apolitical.  Things became political whenever the virus problems were blamed on Trump or the administration's response to the virus.  There was no way to connect the virus to investing. 

The market tanked in mid-February, after the Fed essentially cut the Fed funds rate to zero in one fell swoop, Treasury yields dropped dramatically to historical lows, and margin/hedging/leverage related activities caused all stock and bond market sectors to swoon.

This was fully 1 month before state governors started their economy/market shutdown activities, which were, and still are, all about politics.  And what also happened two months ago, in mid march, as we discussed the virus, and political views started making their way into things, PERSONAL animosity, name calling, and derogatory verbiage TOWARDS the poster, not the politician, arrived on site.

What's also changed is that animosity seems to have carried over to investment topics and threads now.

At any rate, there are a few M* posters who migrated over to Facebook.  And we do discuss political issues at times.  Some discussions go deep into a subject, others do not, but we also discuss non-political stuff as well.  Facebook is for entertainment.  So, apparently, is M*.  Who takes any investment advice from anyone around here beyond face value?  8-)

 

ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
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Participant ○○○

Thanks, all for joining in. While I might not be bothered by threads going political, especially when they are remotely related to investing to begin with, I see that most others here do not share my sentiments, and I respect that. It appears that the current ban on politics is in fact supported by most of our members and that is enough for me to be in agreement with the ban. In my OP above I assumed more were of like mind, based on how many people participate in political discussions, but that is probably just a handful given the number of subscribers we have. SO, if we are going to have this ban, I suggest to Ryan to focus more on the offenders, rather than the lager job continually having to mop up these wayward threads. But, I appreciate his patience and good heart to leave banning posters as a latter resort.

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Explorer ○○○

YBB said: "M* is an investment/finance site and its current policy bans political posts - that should remain so. Off-topic is for investment/finance stuff that doesn't fit clearly in other named forums."

That is my perspective as well.

I would also like to see the name-calling and personal attacks stop. 

Perhaps the Off-Topic should be renamed "Financial Matters Not Directly Connected to Investing." This would allow posters to ask about, e.g., reasonable states to retire to, how to find a financial planner, tax-loss harvesting, and other financial life matters.

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Frequent Contributor

      Just the old ignore function would do the trick for all forums. Everyone could make their own decisions then.

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Frequent Contributor

@ViveBene wrote:

YBB said: "M* is an investment/finance site and its current policy bans political posts - that should remain so. Off-topic is for investment/finance stuff that doesn't fit clearly in other named forums."

That is my perspective as well.

I would also like to see the name-calling and personal attacks stop. 

 


+1

 

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Frequent Contributor

@ElLobo wrote:

@Bentley wrote:

@GLI2019 wrote:

Bogleheads is an adult space, privately owned, that has successfully eliminated political discussions. 

I visit Morningstar for the purpose of finance principally. I have posted on this site long before it was revamped. I believe I began in the early 2000s.

I also posted at that time in the Politics group. There were many heated exchanges and I was as partisan as most posters.  I am glad the revamped Morningstar is trying to shut the partisanship down.

My sense is the stress of covid-19 plus the November election has led to the political posts. But I would like to see the partisans of any inclination take their commentary elsewhere.  Twitter might be an option. 

In the meantime, it bothers me to see how disrespectful some posters are when Ryan has attempted to be reasonable.  Some of the behavior is childish in the extreme. 

That's my view.

Bob


 

+1


  My former colleagues and I went through an indoctrination class with our company when we first became employees. In one of the booklets that we received, we were instructed not to engage in any conversations involving race, religion, or finances. At the time I found that strange; today it all makes sense. One of our biggest offenders of "political blather" posted he would be leaving these forums to discuss politics on his Facebook page? Well as it turns out that apparently feell through and so now he starts a new messy topic daily. While I never agreed with his investment strategies, I'd rather paddle a kayak across Lake Erie with a rabid raccoon on my lap than listen to his noninvestment nonsense on this investment forum.


-1

Interesting troll.  Each of the 19 or so, not daily, posts that I started over the last 3 months or so was specifically related to the virus, which is supposed to be apolitical.  Things became political whenever the virus problems were blamed on Trump or the administration's response to the virus.  There was no way to connect the virus to investing. 

The market tanked in mid-February, after the Fed essentially cut the Fed funds rate to zero in one fell swoop, Treasury yields dropped dramatically to historical lows, and margin/hedging/leverage related activities caused all stock and bond market sectors to swoon.

This was fully 1 month before state governors started their economy/market shutdown activities, which were, and still are, all about politics.  And what also happened two months ago, in mid march, as we discussed the virus, and political views started making their way into things, PERSONAL animosity, name calling, and derogatory verbiage TOWARDS the poster, not the politician, arrived on site.

What's also changed is that animosity seems to have carried over to investment topics and threads now.

At any rate, there are a few M* posters who migrated over to Facebook.  And we do discuss political issues at times.  Some discussions go deep into a subject, others do not, but we also discuss non-political stuff as well.  Facebook is for entertainment.  So, apparently, is M*.  Who takes any investment advice from anyone around here beyond face value?  8-)

 


 

 Members are sick of your nonsense and name-calling. Having seen every investment strategy and many of the products you have introduced to these boards collapse you should probably discuss something else, but do it on Facebook, not here. You have been warned time and time again but continue to push the limits and waste the moderators time. Around early March you posted the following..................

 

               there is nothing for me to learn anymore, let alone contribute, to non-I&D discussions anymore. I will spend most of my time now on Facebook, discussing politics.
For those interested, I am chuck.wolfe.7 on Facebook.--------------ElLobo

Rather than honor your claim to stay out of non-I&D discussions, you have stepped up your non I&D trollings. Not only drawing the attention of the moderator who has issued you many warnings and time out, but you also add nothing of investment value to members .

Please, please, please honor your promise to take your politics to Facebook and leave this forum to those who would rather not see that nonsense here.

Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

@Bentley wrote:

@ElLobo wrote:

@Bentley wrote:

@GLI2019 wrote:

Bogleheads is an adult space, privately owned, that has successfully eliminated political discussions. 

I visit Morningstar for the purpose of finance principally. I have posted on this site long before it was revamped. I believe I began in the early 2000s.

I also posted at that time in the Politics group. There were many heated exchanges and I was as partisan as most posters.  I am glad the revamped Morningstar is trying to shut the partisanship down.

My sense is the stress of covid-19 plus the November election has led to the political posts. But I would like to see the partisans of any inclination take their commentary elsewhere.  Twitter might be an option. 

In the meantime, it bothers me to see how disrespectful some posters are when Ryan has attempted to be reasonable.  Some of the behavior is childish in the extreme. 

That's my view.

Bob


 

+1


  My former colleagues and I went through an indoctrination class with our company when we first became employees. In one of the booklets that we received, we were instructed not to engage in any conversations involving race, religion, or finances. At the time I found that strange; today it all makes sense. One of our biggest offenders of "political blather" posted he would be leaving these forums to discuss politics on his Facebook page? Well as it turns out that apparently feell through and so now he starts a new messy topic daily. While I never agreed with his investment strategies, I'd rather paddle a kayak across Lake Erie with a rabid raccoon on my lap than listen to his noninvestment nonsense on this investment forum.


-1

Interesting troll.  Each of the 19 or so, not daily, posts that I started over the last 3 months or so was specifically related to the virus, which is supposed to be apolitical.  Things became political whenever the virus problems were blamed on Trump or the administration's response to the virus.  There was no way to connect the virus to investing. 

The market tanked in mid-February, after the Fed essentially cut the Fed funds rate to zero in one fell swoop, Treasury yields dropped dramatically to historical lows, and margin/hedging/leverage related activities caused all stock and bond market sectors to swoon.

This was fully 1 month before state governors started their economy/market shutdown activities, which were, and still are, all about politics.  And what also happened two months ago, in mid march, as we discussed the virus, and political views started making their way into things, PERSONAL animosity, name calling, and derogatory verbiage TOWARDS the poster, not the politician, arrived on site.

What's also changed is that animosity seems to have carried over to investment topics and threads now.

At any rate, there are a few M* posters who migrated over to Facebook.  And we do discuss political issues at times.  Some discussions go deep into a subject, others do not, but we also discuss non-political stuff as well.  Facebook is for entertainment.  So, apparently, is M*.  Who takes any investment advice from anyone around here beyond face value?  8-)

 


 

 Members are sick of your nonsense and name-calling. Having seen every investment strategy and many of the products you have introduced to these boards collapse you should probably discuss something else, but do it on Facebook, not here. You have been warned time and time again but continue to push the limits and waste the moderators time. Around early March you posted the following..................

 

               there is nothing for me to learn anymore, let alone contribute, to non-I&D discussions anymore. I will spend most of my time now on Facebook, discussing politics.
For those interested, I am chuck.wolfe.7 on Facebook.--------------ElLobo

Rather than honor your claim (not a claim, maybehaps a promise, but not, nor pledge, nopers, just a statement of intent) to stay out of non-I&D discussions, you have stepped up your non I&D trollings. Not only drawing the attention of the moderator who has issued you many warnings and time out, but you also add nothing of investment value to members .

Please, please, please honor your promise to take your politics to Facebook and leave this forum to those who would rather not see that nonsense here.


Once a troll, always a troll.  It's interesting that, just like Sleepy Joe, Pocahontas, Orange Man, and Rocket Man, nicknames (terms of endearment), like troll, stick.  Just like a certain politician's attempt to assign the nickname, President Tweet, to our president, nicknames don't stick until lots of people start using it.  Your use of your nickname in this posting is your feeble attempt to usurp and marginalize the term I first used for you.  As I recall back then, on the old boards, I got a timeout for it as well.  What does your vast collection of previous posts say?  I'm curious.

At any rate, I do spend more time on Facebook, discussing the virus and politics than I do here.  Never said I would stay completely off M*.  That's what the word 'most' means in American English.  Not so sure of Aussie or Queen's English, however!  8-)

In addition to Off Topic posts regarding the virus, I have also started, and responded to, numerous postings on the other forums.  Especially D&I.  My community stats are, as of right now:

Community Stats
Posts2606
Solutions3
Kudos Given20
Kudos Received308
Member Since‎04-29-2019

Yours are:

Community Stats
Posts1548
Solutions5
Kudos Given132
Kudos Received252
Member Since‎04-29-2019

 

Step up your game, troll.  I give out Kudos whenever I learn something, or someone posts something that is particularly interesting.  I may be mistaken but I believe Cliff has received the most Kudos that I have sent out, given the entertainment value of his posts.
 
Here are my private stats:
 
Private Stats
NameChuck Wolfe
Total Page Views31772
Total Messages Read158256
Topics Started103
Replies2,488
Blog Articles Posted0
Blog Comments Posted0
Ideas Posted0
Idea Comments Posted0
Reviews Posted0
Review Comments Posted0
Total Solutions Marked Accepted1
Total Board Views922
Date Last Visiteda moment ago
Total Signins684
Total Minutes Online88104
Please post yours so others can compare.
 
Or shake the sand from your sandles.  Mat 10:14
 

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."
ElLobo, de la casa de la toro caca grande
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Contributor ○○○

Problem is that name calling etc. happens daily in the other forums. Mostly goes unnoticed. 


@ViveBene wrote:

YBB said: "M* is an investment/finance site and its current policy bans political posts - that should remain so. Off-topic is for investment/finance stuff that doesn't fit clearly in other named forums."

That is my perspective as well.

I would also like to see the name-calling and personal attacks stop. 

Perhaps the Off-Topic should be renamed "Financial Matters Not Directly Connected to Investing." This would allow posters to ask about, e.g., reasonable states to retire to, how to find a financial planner, tax-loss harvesting, and other financial life matters.


 

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Community Manager Community Manager
Community Manager

You're on another time out, Lobo.

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Frequent Contributor

I respect your goodwill, Ryan, but there are times when a disruptive influence is told to withdraw from the class.

Bob

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