cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
     
Highlighted
Contributor ○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis


@FD1001 wrote:

@Anitya wrote:

@FD1001 wrote:

Did a search and found several

https://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/2020-bond-funds-analysis/m-p/704259/highlight/true#M...

https://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/2020-bond-funds-analysis/m-p/706855/highlight/true#M...

 


Thanks.  Both those links landed me on the exact post.  Do you use the permalink feature to generate the links?

 


Actually, it was my mistake supplying these links and is based on your previous posts, here is one of them.

anitya.PNG


What are you trying to accomplish? 

 

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis


@sthanga wrote:

FD,

Thank you. I am studying the funds in the table you provided. I have already more than 6 bond funds between Fidelity  and Vanguard. 

ADVNX is shown to be good choice at this time. However Fidelity does not offer this fund. Vanguard requires minimum of 1M$. 

I would like to limit my search among funds having risk of low and below average.

It would be helpful to have such a table for municipal bond funds also.

SRT


As you know I only invest in HY muni.  I looked at Fidelity recommended fund for Higher-Rated interm Muni.  These should be fine

Muni inter.PNG

In my HY Muni list I have the following:

 %%% Total%%Standard  
 Total ReturnTotal ReturnReturnTotal ReturnTotal ReturnDeviationMorningstarMorningstar
Ticker1 Month3 MonthYTD12 Month3 Year3 YearReturnRisk
BSNIX1.314.875.91---------------
OPTAX1.856.54.197.467.016.35HighAverage
GWMEX2.499.932.475.085.537.81Above AverageAbove Average
VWALX1.846.831.914.164.975.52HighAbove Average
PHMIX1.897.31.574.445.56.43HighBelow Average
PHIZX2.38.170.833.274.476.74Above AverageAverage
ORNAX2.199.280.764.256.928.56HighHigh
MMHAX1.967.980.372.714.746.76Above AverageAverage
AYMIX2.29.180.272.994.727.21Above AverageAverage
GHYAX2.428.37-0.352.615.537.6Above AverageAbove Average
NHMAX0.548.42-3.2-0.324.659.51HighHigh

 

For a LT hold it's easy to own VWALX.

OPTAX has a good LT record and a very good YTD one too.  It's 3 year performance is the best with one of the lowest SD.

BSNIX is a new fund from a reputable company Baird and it did really great YTD.

GWMEX has higher-rated Munis (all IG).

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Contributor ○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis


@madphil wrote:

P.S. - I'm not on here every day so I may miss some intermediate posts.  


I too skip certain threads for days at a time, especially when I see a food fight on a thread.  Even if I visit a thread everyday, I skip posts by a lot of posters.   So, it is conceivable I might miss information posted by other posters and sometimes I miss posts directed at me after my last post on that thread if I stopped going back to that thread.  If I am not responding to somebody's request direct at me, I was not trying to ignore them.   

BTW, I figured out why my search of this forum was not working this morning.  

 

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Contributor ○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis


@FD1001 wrote:

MWFSX dist continue to go down.

As of DateTickerDividend Rate
7/24/2020MWFSX0.00171
7/23/2020MWFSX0.00158
7/22/2020MWFSX0.00143
7/21/2020MWFSX0.00168
7/20/2020MWFSX0.00171


If we use 0.0017 daily we get about 6.2% annually just from distr.

MWFSX is one of the worse performer for one month and 3 months in my list that I posted just yesterday.


I have a small holding in this fund, and still not sure what to make of it at this point. When I (we) looked at it previously, it appeared that it initially had a very high expense ratio and during this time it was mostly held by insiders, so its returns during this initial time period are a little bit questionable. Interesting that the share price was up a penny on Friday (a risk off day).

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Explorer ○○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis

To Anitya:  The polite, respectful tone of your posts does not go unnoticed.  It is much appreciated.

Highlighted
Participant ○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis

FD,  Thank you very much.

SRT

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Contributor ○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis


@PN wrote:


I still have a small holding (MWFSX) in this fund, not sure what to make of it at this point. When I looked at it previously, it appeared that it initially had a very high expense ratio and during this time it was mostly held by insiders, so its returns during this initial time period are a little bit questionable. Interesting that the share price was up a penny on Friday (a risk off day).


I agree that we should not expect the initial performance to continue.  The managers found some deeply mispriced instruments / strategy to launch the fund with initial high insider investment, allowing their team members to share potential gains.  Other funds had similar performance upon launch.  My guess is, as long as the fund stays small, the managers would be incentivized to allocate value whenever they can find to this fund.  I think the net ER has been the same and I am hoping they keep it under 1% for next fiscal year as well.

If this fund gets us 6+% dividends spread somewhat evenly throughout the year, with the type of volatility it enjoys, I will take that over a fund that pays 4% dividend plus a potential capital gain of 2%.  Cashing out capital gains when available also requires an additional set of decisions/ actions from me.  I like to keep my fixed income investment decisions simpler so I have attention span to devote to equities, which move faster. 

For now, I stopped at my initial investment (1% of PV) - yes, my timing was off a bit as I sold some FXNAX to fund MWFSX and FXNAX moved higher since. 

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis


@Anitya wrote:

@PN wrote:


I still have a small holding (MWFSX) in this fund, not sure what to make of it at this point. When I looked at it previously, it appeared that it initially had a very high expense ratio and during this time it was mostly held by insiders, so its returns during this initial time period are a little bit questionable. Interesting that the share price was up a penny on Friday (a risk off day).


I agree that we should not expect the initial performance to continue.  The managers found some deeply mispriced instruments / strategy to launch the fund with initial high insider investment, allowing their team members to share potential gains.  Other funds had similar performance upon launch.  My guess is, as long as the fund stays small, the managers would be incentivized to allocate value whenever they can find to this fund.  I think the net ER has been the same and I am hoping they keep it under 1% for next fiscal year as well.

If this fund gets us 6+% dividends spread somewhat evenly throughout the year, with the type of volatility it enjoys, I will take that over a fund that pays 4% dividend plus a potential capital gain of 2%.  Cashing out capital gains when available also requires an additional set of decisions/ actions from me.  I like to keep my fixed income investment decisions simpler so I have attention span to devote to equities, which move faster. 

For now, I stopped at my initial investment (1% of PV) - yes, my timing was off a bit as I sold some FXNAX to fund MWFSX and FXNAX moved higher since. 


1% is really a meaningful investment and support for this fund.

For reference, below is one week + one month performance for MWFSX and that includes all the daily distributions.

One week....M* multi category=0.75...MWFSX=0.11

One month...M* multi category=1.79...MWFSX=0.89

The ER is going to 9.2% by 7/31 unless the managers continuing with the waiver.

The next 1-2 weeks would tell us plenty. Is the daily distribution stays around 0.0015-0.0017 or go up/down from here.

I don't know what exactly is going on but it's not looking good in the last a few weeks.  I will keep watching it.

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Explorer ○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis

i bought it and dumped it when it seemed like too much smoke and too many mirrors were at work, at least too too for me.

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Contributor ○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis


@FD1001 wrote:

The ER is going to 9.2% by 7/31 unless the managers continuing with the waiver.

The next 1-2 weeks would tell us plenty. Is the daily distribution stays around 0.0015-0.0017 or go up/down from here.

I don't know what exactly is going on but it's not looking good in the last a few weeks.  I will keep watching it.


Wait a minute, the last time I checked this E/R waiver was something showing on other web sites, but not on the fund's web site. So I was thinking that the waiver in fees that appeared on other web sites may have been accurate with respect to the history. But going forward the fund had changed this into a new setting of their new gross E/R (meaning the waiver became permanent, at least until it gets reset).

Did anything change?

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Contributor ○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis

I just checked the web site again. If you go to ‘Fees and Minimums’ -

  • Gross Expense Ratio   0.82
  • Net Expense Ratio       0.82

But if you open the Fact Sheet (dated 3/31/2020):

  • Gross ER 9.20
  • Net ER 0.82
  • This contract will remain in place until July 31, 2020

https://www.tcw.com/en/Products/Funds/MetWest-Flexible-Income-Fund/MWFSX---M

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis

MULTI$ CurrentTotal ReturnTotal ReturnReturnTotal ReturnTotal ReturnSDMorningstarMorningstar
 Price1 Month3 MonthYTD12 Month3 Year3 YearReturnRisk
MIAYX10.514.159.455.899.14------------
JIPAX10.913.367.12.915.292.716.18AverageAverage
BMSAX10.263.168.231.654.734.437.73Above AverageAverage
STISX8.993.167.130.253.073.698.02AverageAbove Average
PLSFX11.033.139.222.756.15.078.4Above AverageAbove Average
JSTIX6.613.035.993.576.53.95.14AverageBelow Average
PDIIX11.133.017.612.14.45.196.67HighAbove Average
JMUTX9.72.979.480.043.194.338.37Above AverageAbove Average
PUCZX10.322.958.781.14.745.838.18HighAbove Average
FADMX12.512.927.61.984.24---6.66AverageAverage
ASIEX10.232.8874.066.014.366.13Above AverageAverage
ADVNX10.082.884.937.5410.445.454.34Above AverageLow
IOFIX9.972.7714.25-20.66-16.81-0.7123.57Below AverageHigh
MXIIX11.062.555.073.494.673.896.04Above AverageBelow Average
HSNYX8.992.4110.325.968.495.857.53HighAbove Average
JMSIX9.212.28.61-1.441.514.228.36Above AverageAbove Average
TSIIX12.141.927.093.986.14.614.91Above AverageBelow Average
PTIAX23.021.925.43.254.834.914.66HighLow
SEMMX8.761.6810.49-13.63-12.52-1.3813.69Below AverageHigh
PIMIX11.611.445.64-0.271.843.65.56HighBelow Average
EIXIX11.221.376.833.025.61------------
VCFAX9.341.197.54-6.7-5.381.539.31Below AverageAbove Average
DHEAX9.741.087.39-1.78-0.62.235.95Below AverageHigh
MWFSX9.990.84.048.5612.91------------
HY$ CurrentTotal ReturnTotal ReturnReturnTotal ReturnTotal ReturnSDMorningstarMorningstar
MUNIPrice1 Month3 MonthYTD12 Month3 Year3 YearReturnRisk
GWMEX10.32.8111.452.995.465.767.92Above AverageAbove Average
GHYAX10.112.610.080.1935.777.7Above AverageAbove Average
PHIZX10.412.489.721.263.524.76.85Above AverageAverage
ORNAX7.782.3411.121.374.677.398.62HighHigh
PHMIX9.452.218.992.164.875.836.51HighBelow Average
OPTAX7.772.137.834.667.747.396.4HighAverage
VWALX11.792.098.162.384.495.135.6HighAbove Average
NHMAX16.980.659.59-2.84-0.034.869.51HighHigh
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis

NON$ CurrentTotal ReturnTotal ReturnReturnTotal ReturnTotal ReturnSDMorningstarMorningstar
TRADPrice1 Month3 MonthYTD12 Month3 Year3 YearReturnRisk
GIOAX25.953.797.442.943.42.24.82AverageAverage
COSIX6.083.359.932.274.364.047.31HighAbove Average
GSZAX9.442.967.694.054.732.016.49Below AverageAverage
LASYX102.568.14.675.473.564.97Above AverageAverage
MNCPX9.472.386.23.685.73.413.59AverageLow
JSIAX9.951.614.552.794.012.893.77Above AverageBelow Average
IISIX9.771.56.06-3.38-1.652.627.17Above AverageAverage
MWSIX7.761.155.1312.493.225.32HighAverage
PMZIX10.850.863.532.063.753.393.43Above AverageLow
HIGH$ CurrentTotal ReturnTotal ReturnReturnTotal ReturnTotal ReturnSDMorningstarMorningstar
RATEDPrice1 Month3 MonthYTD12 Month3 Year3 YearReturnRisk
GIBLX29.882.756.4411.7712.696.223.26HighLow
STYAX13.812.626.328.7911.176.074.23Above AverageAverage
TOBYX11.312.516.727.910.295.665.02AverageAbove Average
LSIIX11.962.416.78.1410.575.685.3HighHigh
JFLEX11.372.295.69.3712.326.144.19AverageAverage
ANBEX11.91.884.9816.6917.928.063.67HighAverage
SCPZX36.851.865.6214.7217.218.134.41HighAverage
SAMFX11.711.773.1110.6312.115.783.57AverageBelow Average
SCCIX13.271.474.5314.5416.718.163.91HighAverage
VBILX12.751.463.919.4711.746.474.04HighHigh

 

Observations:

Last month was another amazing month with many bond funds making 2-3%.

Multi- the mostly MBS funds got weaker while funds with more HY and  global bonds did great.  MIAYX(American) newer fund did great for one week to YTD. On the other end MWFSX faded completely with just 0.8% for the month and significant reduced daily distributions

HY Munis GWMEX continues to lead for 1-3 months with 2.8% and 11.45%.  VWALX is a great fund for most investors but it’s more than 3% behind GWMEX for 3 months.

Inter term – did well because rates were down.  GIBLX shined with 2.75% for the month.

Bank loans – Lower performance + higher SD

Uncontrain/Nontrad-MNCPX continues to shine from one week to 3 years with good performance and lower SD. PMZIX faded away for 1-3 months.

HY+EM – Good rebound in May.

Corp – Rated down Corp bonds are up.

SP500-Great month at 5.9%, YTD at just 2.5%. 

PCI-CEF got crushed more that stocks YTD and are still behind. One month at 6.2% but still down -18.2 YTD

 

My own portfolio

I started the month with GWMEX(HY Munis) over 50% +TSIIX(Multi) smaller % and EIXIX with small % which I have been invested for 2-3 months already. I sold TSIIX early in the month and invested it all in GWMEX,HY Munis are just the best risk/reward category and why I have a very high % in it.  I sold EIXIX in mid month and bought BMSAX.

RISK/REWARD for YTD is great and beyond anything I expected  :-)

Highlighted
Contributor ○○○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis

Great job, @FD1001. Your work is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Fred

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Explorer ○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis

Thank you, @FD1001 . Very useful info, save me a lot of time.

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Explorer ○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis

thanks a mil again.  btw / where can you even buy MIAYX?  according to m-star, nowhere really.

also, if you want to list funds on a tear, you might add SVARX.  yeow!

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis


@linter wrote:

thanks a mil again.  btw / where can you even buy MIAYX?  according to m-star, nowhere really.

also, if you want to list funds on a tear, you might add SVARX.  yeow!


You can buy MIAWX at Schwab

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Explorer ○

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis

thanks.  i see i can get it at fidelity, too, without a load.  minimum investment is $25.  yup, $25.

0 Kudos
Highlighted
Frequent Contributor

Re: 2020 - bond funds analysis

FD, you obviously spent a lot of time and effort producing this fund list--it is almost overwhelming!  I am not clear on what criteria you used  to select these funds.  For example, how did you decide to list 2 VOYA funds (IISIX and VCFAX), that did so poorly in the March crash, but exclude IICIX which did better and is a Schwab recommended fund?  Do you look at use of derivatives as a major holding in funds from PGIM in your risk considerations of a fund?  I am a pretty risk averse investor, so I still look for funds that have low or below average  SD and M* risk, and I exclude funds with high risk and high SD, so many funds on your list don't interest me, but likely fit the criteria of many other followers of your posts.  Any additional clarification of the criteria for picking funds for your listing would be helpful.

0 Kudos
Announcements